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> Nationals: Math, um... yeah Math is on the 8th of April
Stanley Tree
post Nov 9 2009, 09:19 PM
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To bring this back a bit, a month of extra math certainly helps. Yea, you need years of math experience already, but certain basic functions (trig identities, trig replacements, volume and area formulas) are a large part of the downfall of many math scores; things you can memorize in a week. This idea that you can't practice math just as much as you practice langlit, art, music has no foundation in reason. "Oh no, I suck at math, I can't ever learn it" should never stop anyone from attempting to learn it; in fact, it should encourage.

And Widget and Stephen need to cut this smurf out.
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Bhushan Deshpand...
post Nov 9 2009, 09:49 PM
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I have to say, as a Nationals medal winner in math last year, this is quite ridiculous. The bigger issue is not the extra three weeks of studying - I studied for perhaps fifteen minutes for math, and that was just making sure I could recall the basic area and volume formulas, trig identities, derivatives and integrals. If you need to study or learn certain things, MIT opencourseware has Calculus I and II online for no charge, and all schools will have books up through Precalculus.

The real issue is that copying answers from an written set of answers to an online system is simply pointless, and adds nothing to the contest. The system seemed to work fine at Memphis last year; I cannot see why there is a reason to change it. Time is already quite crunched for most students in math. I ("educatedly"-)guessed on two problems at Nationals because of time issues; this new system will probably mean that I would have to stop two minutes earlier (skipping at least a problem or two) to make sure I enter in the answers correctly. I hope that USAD will reconsider, but somehow I doubt it.

This post has been edited by Bhushan Deshpande: Nov 9 2009, 09:50 PM


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Bhushan Deshpande
2009 Nationals Team, Scholastic 5
2010 Nationals Team, Scholastic 4
Acton-Boxborough Regional High School Class of 2010
Acton, Massachusetts
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laureus
post Nov 9 2009, 11:13 PM
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When I was a junior, an extra month definitely helped because I learned some stuff on the nats test in school in that one month. Besides what you actually learn in regular class, there isn't too much difference since you could just learn/review the stuff a month earlier. However, more time is still beneficial, especially for lower scoring decathletes, since there are a lot of easy stuff they can pick up rather quickly. But it's always the people who can benefit the most from studying math who refuse to do it.
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TheAwesomeKid
post Nov 9 2009, 11:48 PM
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guys, we know reeve is usually a complete dbag, but he's being pretty reasonable.
For a lot of schools, 300 dollars isn't throwaway money (30x9+alternate) - this makes it harder to practice online.
As a matter of fact, it is tougher to practice for online math tests, simply because of the years of experience we have doing it pen and paper.
An extra month of practice may not help a certain individual, but it will almost certainly help any team that isn't Klein. You can always learn more math.

Nothing he's said is unreasonable, even if the way he says it is.
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TheAwesomeKid
post Nov 10 2009, 12:02 AM
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essentially, yes.
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tryingtothinkaga...
post Nov 10 2009, 12:12 AM
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as um a two-time nationals gold medalist...
I really don't think this will turn out very well, after thinking about it for a while. It does theoretically have the potential to increase score on the whole a bit as people focus on subjects other than math for a month or so, but I find that highly unlikely. In all, I can find no way in which this would help decathletes as a whole. It provides just a few more ways for things to go horribly wrong. And personally, I wouldn't have wanted to risk my score in math to a computer malfunction, as much as the rest you seem to have not cared about your math scores.
Anyone remember the difference between Moorpark and WW in '08?


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caveman
post Nov 10 2009, 02:14 AM
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what the person above me said. as someone who went to nat's last year, and hopes to go again, i'm not looking forward to this. any chance they'll change their minds?
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DrSir
post Nov 10 2009, 02:41 AM
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QUOTE (debator @ Nov 9 2009, 08:30 PM) *
i love how everyone is pimping themselves in order to lend credence to their opinions.


Not many other sources of Ethos haha...
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zzzptm
post Nov 10 2009, 04:29 AM
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Good gosh JBroms is the voice of reason... what's next, Research Monkey reporting accurate scores?

OK, so the math will be online. That is a shocker.

USAD already makes students sign an honesty contract or whatever it is that declares one is not cheating on one's tests and that one's calculators are legit and that they do not have CAS.

If a proctor/coach is not paying close attention, though, students could inadvertently be using calculators that are similar to permitted ones but that are themselves not permitted. It wouldn't necessarily be malicious, but it could happen and goose things in a bad way.

Even so, we're already seeing Texas state competitions no longer check calculators. My students told me last year of a coach that handed out calculators after a proctor had already passed by his kids. They then jumped to the conclusion that such calculators had stored formulas or other advantages, which then tainted their trust of scores from that event. As a coach, such stories nag at the back of my mind, I have to confess.

That this decision comes as a surprise makes it doubly worse. It simply should not be that way.


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Jonesy
post Nov 10 2009, 09:36 AM
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QUOTE (zzzptm @ Nov 9 2009, 10:29 PM) *
JBroms is the voice of reason

I feel like I should sig this for posterity.


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Jonesy, who is, of course, the measurement of all things manly on this site
QUOTE (zzzptm @ Nov 9 2009, 10:29 PM) *
JBroms is the voice of reason
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CouchBeck
post Dec 4 2009, 07:03 PM
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I have been told that the math test being taken online may not be set in stone. (numerous complaints anyone?)
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zzzptm
post Dec 5 2009, 12:12 AM
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Hopefully, they'll also decide to check caluculators...


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"我很警惕。I am very vigilant. 不要激怒我. Do not anger me."

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Abuelo
post Dec 7 2009, 06:19 PM
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Math test online is wrong. Another reason to do WSC instead.

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teeling
post Dec 7 2009, 07:20 PM
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Cliff, anything in the works for LAUSD as far as WSC?
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Abuelo
post Dec 7 2009, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE (teeling @ Dec 7 2009, 07:20 PM) *
Cliff, anything in the works for LAUSD as far as WSC?




DDD has met twice with the LAUSD Aca Deca Coaches. It seemed that he got a very favorable response but he would have to give you the specifics. We will have 67 teams in our regional competition this year and I anticipate more in 2011.

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raconteur
post Dec 8 2009, 11:13 PM
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Today I received an email from our state director stating that USAD wanted input regarding having math online. Has anyone else received any kind of info or feedback on this issue? I get the impression that having online math for nationals is not written in stone. However, it could be a smoke screen.
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cepae
post Dec 8 2009, 11:57 PM
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QUOTE (raconteur @ Dec 8 2009, 06:13 PM) *
Today I received an email from our state director stating that USAD wanted input regarding having math online. Has anyone else received any kind of info or feedback on this issue? I get the impression that having online math for nationals is not written in stone. However, it could be a smoke screen.


Yes, I received something from our state director. I just found this thread. It's interesting as to why they're doing math this way. I just asked what else will start to go online. Are we going to be left with subjectives? Do we really have too little time at nationals not to do math?....


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AK_WDB
post Dec 9 2009, 05:15 AM
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Hopefully they are really asking for opinions on this. Can I ask to be kept informed about any developments? Our state director isn't incredibly organized, but if USAD is indeed soliciting input then both the Lathrop coach and I will have something to say.
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laureus
post Dec 9 2009, 05:23 AM
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I go to the same school where my state director works.

QUOTE (debator @ Dec 8 2009, 11:20 PM) *
i would say something but usad does not actually like me all that much

something to do with balconies.

Refresh my memory?
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AK_WDB
post Dec 9 2009, 05:38 AM
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QUOTE (debator @ Dec 8 2009, 08:35 PM) *
we were throwing paper airplanes off our balcony in honolulu (and one dude might have also dangled a table off it briefly) and they almost disqualified us for it.

Meanwhile, the Waukesha West team was drinking beer. Such logic, USAD. facepalm.gif
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