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> Decathlon Controversy
Guest_BearMan_*
post Mar 21 2012, 02:19 AM
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QUOTE (blondie13 @ Mar 20 2012, 06:57 PM) *
QUOTE (JBroms @ Mar 20 2012, 07:47 PM) *
About people intentionally lowering their grades, I've heard this argument before, and out of every great varsity I have ever talked to, I don't believe a single one has sandbagged their grades. Eddie Nunez, Dylan Verdan, and Colin Calle all competed for one year as a scholastic, and some of the greatest have even had sub-2.0 grade point averages. Considering the potential effects it could have on getting into colleges, I doubt any student would intentionally lower their grades in such a fashion.


I purposely didn't study for my PreCalc/Trig exam so I could get a B in the class and be a scholastic rather than an honors (aka I intentionally got a D on my final). However, this was before I was part of the team...I took the preliminary tests, was given an interview spot, knew I would NEVER make the team as an honors, and made my way into the scholastic pool. And my gpa was still great, so I regret nothing.


I wish I had done that. You can either dominate as a scholastic or be mediocre as an honors. Plus since I just went to ASU anyway (they accept everyone) it's not like my good grades ended up mattering XD
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Guest_JBroms_*
post Mar 21 2012, 02:21 AM
Post #62





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QUOTE (blondie13 @ Mar 21 2012, 02:57 AM) *
QUOTE (JBroms @ Mar 20 2012, 07:47 PM) *
About people intentionally lowering their grades, I've heard this argument before, and out of every great varsity I have ever talked to, I don't believe a single one has sandbagged their grades. Eddie Nunez, Dylan Verdan, and Colin Calle all competed for one year as a scholastic, and some of the greatest have even had sub-2.0 grade point averages. Considering the potential effects it could have on getting into colleges, I doubt any student would intentionally lower their grades in such a fashion.


I purposely didn't study for my PreCalc/Trig exam so I could get a B in the class and be a scholastic rather than an honors (aka I intentionally got a D on my final). However, this was before I was part of the team...I took the preliminary tests, was given an interview spot, knew I would NEVER make the team as an honors, and made my way into the scholastic pool. And my gpa was still great, so I regret nothing.

I said varsities woman! It would take a lot more to drop you down to 2.99 than 3.74
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Guest_Herohito_*
post Mar 21 2012, 02:32 AM
Post #63





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QUOTE (BearMan @ Mar 20 2012, 07:19 PM) *
QUOTE (blondie13 @ Mar 20 2012, 06:57 PM) *
QUOTE (JBroms @ Mar 20 2012, 07:47 PM) *
About people intentionally lowering their grades, I've heard this argument before, and out of every great varsity I have ever talked to, I don't believe a single one has sandbagged their grades. Eddie Nunez, Dylan Verdan, and Colin Calle all competed for one year as a scholastic, and some of the greatest have even had sub-2.0 grade point averages. Considering the potential effects it could have on getting into colleges, I doubt any student would intentionally lower their grades in such a fashion.


I purposely didn't study for my PreCalc/Trig exam so I could get a B in the class and be a scholastic rather than an honors (aka I intentionally got a D on my final). However, this was before I was part of the team...I took the preliminary tests, was given an interview spot, knew I would NEVER make the team as an honors, and made my way into the scholastic pool. And my gpa was still great, so I regret nothing.


I wish I had done that. You can either dominate as a scholastic or be mediocre as an honors. Plus since I just went to ASU anyway (they accept everyone) it's not like my good grades ended up mattering XD

You could go all out and be Joe Yu.
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Guest_blondie13_*
post Mar 21 2012, 02:37 AM
Post #64





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QUOTE (JBroms @ Mar 20 2012, 09:21 PM) *
QUOTE (blondie13 @ Mar 21 2012, 02:57 AM) *
QUOTE (JBroms @ Mar 20 2012, 07:47 PM) *
About people intentionally lowering their grades, I've heard this argument before, and out of every great varsity I have ever talked to, I don't believe a single one has sandbagged their grades. Eddie Nunez, Dylan Verdan, and Colin Calle all competed for one year as a scholastic, and some of the greatest have even had sub-2.0 grade point averages. Considering the potential effects it could have on getting into colleges, I doubt any student would intentionally lower their grades in such a fashion.


I purposely didn't study for my PreCalc/Trig exam so I could get a B in the class and be a scholastic rather than an honors (aka I intentionally got a D on my final). However, this was before I was part of the team...I took the preliminary tests, was given an interview spot, knew I would NEVER make the team as an honors, and made my way into the scholastic pool. And my gpa was still great, so I regret nothing.

I said varsities woman! It would take a lot more to drop you down to 2.99 than 3.74


Haha, I realize this. With our varsities, we had to get them passing to keep them eligible. At the end of the '08 school year, one of our varsities was going to flat out fail english unless he handed in his assignments. By some stroke of luck, he got them all done. However, when he went to hand them in, his notebook was GONE (we found it during decathlon practice in '09 in his multi-pocketed spy jacket). The team banded together to help him finish his assignments so he wouldn't fail, throwing them on the floor and jumping on them to make them look dirty because otherwise the teacher would have known he didn't complete them himself. Our coach never knew about this and frankly, it wasn't done for the team's sake. They did it because they couldn't bare to see their friend fail since he's pretty much a genius. Last I heard, he's studying at UW Madison and doing quite well.
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Guest_JBroms_*
post Mar 21 2012, 02:55 AM
Post #65





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QUOTE (blondie13 @ Mar 21 2012, 03:37 AM) *
QUOTE (JBroms @ Mar 20 2012, 09:21 PM) *
QUOTE (blondie13 @ Mar 21 2012, 02:57 AM) *
QUOTE (JBroms @ Mar 20 2012, 07:47 PM) *
About people intentionally lowering their grades, I've heard this argument before, and out of every great varsity I have ever talked to, I don't believe a single one has sandbagged their grades. Eddie Nunez, Dylan Verdan, and Colin Calle all competed for one year as a scholastic, and some of the greatest have even had sub-2.0 grade point averages. Considering the potential effects it could have on getting into colleges, I doubt any student would intentionally lower their grades in such a fashion.


I purposely didn't study for my PreCalc/Trig exam so I could get a B in the class and be a scholastic rather than an honors (aka I intentionally got a D on my final). However, this was before I was part of the team...I took the preliminary tests, was given an interview spot, knew I would NEVER make the team as an honors, and made my way into the scholastic pool. And my gpa was still great, so I regret nothing.

I said varsities woman! It would take a lot more to drop you down to 2.99 than 3.74


Haha, I realize this. With our varsities, we had to get them passing to keep them eligible. At the end of the '08 school year, one of our varsities was going to flat out fail english unless he handed in his assignments. By some stroke of luck, he got them all done. However, when he went to hand them in, his notebook was GONE (we found it during decathlon practice in '09 in his multi-pocketed spy jacket). The team banded together to help him finish his assignments so he wouldn't fail, throwing them on the floor and jumping on them to make them look dirty because otherwise the teacher would have known he didn't complete them himself. Our coach never knew about this and frankly, it wasn't done for the team's sake. They did it because they couldn't bare to see their friend fail since he's pretty much a genius. Last I heard, he's studying at UW Madison and doing quite well.

More reinforcement about how great varsities aren't sandbagging.
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Guest_Gear_*
post Mar 21 2012, 03:27 AM
Post #66





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QUOTE (magicblueman @ Mar 20 2012, 06:31 PM) *
A few things. One, Acadec isn't technically under the jurisdiction of UIL. Most schools follow the rules like that to maintain administrative support, etc, from what I can understand.

QUOTE (madcap @ Mar 20 2012, 04:41 PM) *
Over the past weekend at California state, I talked with many of the classiest people I've ever met: Sam Kullens (Franklin's coach), Marshall's decathletes, Stephanie Franklin (El Camino Real's coach), ECR's decathletes, Redondo Union, Riverside County coaches, Garfield's coaching team... the list goes on and on.

Stephanie Franklin asked me if I wanted to meet her team. I was honored. They were totally unlike the rumors about past ECR teams I've heard on here. Friendly, full of jokes, and good-humored. I'm sure the rest of the LAUSD contingent would have been just as honorable if I had managed to meet all of them. The popular perception here - of top LAUSD teams as secretive and elitist - is way off. Like Andrew Hartman said on here last year after visiting California state, they genuinely care about each other and Academic Decathlon the same way we do. Two things I'll always remember about California state 2012:


I will say that the year I competed at nationals, ECR was a team composed of perfectly lovely individuals. They were in fact sociable (excluding the social event they skipped, presumably due to extra last minute studying). They were all nice people, until it was announced that they won. That year in particular, the parent supporters of the team brought a 20-foot long banner which said something to the effect of "ECR 2010 National Champs". After the award ceremony, when most of the teams were congratulating each other (I remember MVM had a spectacular team that year), ECR was off celebrating. I and a few of my teammates tried to congratulate them, only to get upturned noses and scoffs at our blatant inferiority. I am not saying that this team is typical of California, and I am sure that they may not have even meant to seem uppity. But as someone on the outside, that's how it appeared. It infuriated me so much that I studied to the point of breakdown the following year.

I don't know if that only throws fuel on the fire, but for those of you in California, that is what it feels like every year. I am sure many teams within California experience similar feelings, never standing a chance up against the big 3. Another thing I have heard about Cali (entirely speculative and uncorroborated) is that they begin recruiting for Acadec in middle school, telling certain gifted and intelligent students to intentionally lower their grades (providing very good varsities). Having suffered with varsity issues for my entire career, I find it somewhat difficult to believe that these teams so consistently produce Eddie Nunez-caliber varsirties year in and year out (3 at a time, at that!). I realize that this is probably licentious hearsay. However, it would explain California's lack of scholastic strength, as it isn't easy to artificially half-tank your grades. Mind you, I am sure none of this is true, and I really, truly want to believe that the rest of the nation is just genuinely outclassed by California.

While AcDec is not recognized by UIL it is still subject to its rules in that TEA has said that any school event that meets one of several criteria including being competitive and featuring a public performance, will adhere to UIL rules. TEA supercedes UIL and therefore AcDec must abide by these rules although AcDec is not technically a UIL event. You know that musical your school's theater department puts on for fun (this is just an example)? If they perform that publicly, they must abide by the 8 hour a week practice time limit as well. They don't, but they are supposed to.
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Guest_magicblueman_*
post Mar 21 2012, 03:45 AM
Post #67





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QUOTE (Gear @ Mar 20 2012, 10:27 PM) *
While AcDec is not recognized by UIL it is still subject to its rules in that TEA has said that any school event that meets one of several criteria including being competitive and featuring a public performance, will adhere to UIL rules. TEA supercedes UIL and therefore AcDec must abide by these rules although AcDec is not technically a UIL event. You know that musical your school's theater department puts on for fun (this is just an example)? If they perform that publicly, they must abide by the 8 hour a week practice time limit as well. They don't, but they are supposed to.

Ah, I suppose I never realized how the chain of command worked there...
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Guest_Tad Walters_*
post Mar 21 2012, 06:30 AM
Post #68





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QUOTE (JBroms @ Mar 20 2012, 07:47 PM) *
About people intentionally lowering their grades, I've heard this argument before, and out of every great varsity I have ever talked to, I don't believe a single one has sandbagged their grades. Eddie Nunez, Dylan Verdan, and Colin Calle all competed for one year as a scholastic, and some of the greatest have even had sub-2.0 grade point averages. Considering the potential effects it could have on getting into colleges, I doubt any student would intentionally lower their grades in such a fashion.




I disagree. From my experience, the BEST varsities are the ones that are borderline Scholastics, such as Eddie Nunez, Andrew Hartman, etc. Both of which, if I remember correctly, were part of NHS at some point in time. I think that a Varsity with a GPA that is almost Scholastic shows a person who may have a general apathy for school, but still has a great work ethic(Something that MAKES a decathlete even more so than intelligence.)
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Guest_BearMan_*
post Mar 21 2012, 06:35 AM
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I don't think Red Mt. has ever had a sub-2.0 varsity even exist. The problem with the higher-end-economic-area schools is that you don't get a lot of kids with slacker parents that don't push their kids to get good grades.

Ironic that I call that a "problem" biggrin.gif
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Guest_Tad Walters_*
post Mar 21 2012, 06:42 AM
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I think my GPA was like a 2.2 or something. I just remember Higgy saying at the beginning of the year "Tad, you are DEFINITELY a varsity. You have, by far, the lowest GPA on the team." And that year I proved that a low GPA does NOT mean you aren't a good decathlete. It's all about that work ethic yo.
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Guest_BearMan_*
post Mar 21 2012, 07:21 AM
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QUOTE (Tad Walters @ Mar 20 2012, 11:42 PM) *
I think my GPA was like a 2.2 or something. I just remember Higgy saying at the beginning of the year "Tad, you are DEFINITELY a varsity. You have, by far, the lowest GPA on the team." And that year I proved that a low GPA does NOT mean you aren't a good decathlete. It's all about that work ethic yo.


I've always said that you don't have to be smart to be good at AcDec. Just gotta be able to memorize smurf wink.gif
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Guest_kplay6809_*
post Mar 21 2012, 12:56 PM
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QUOTE (Tad Walters @ Mar 21 2012, 01:30 AM) *
I disagree. From my experience, the BEST varsities are the ones that are borderline Scholastics, such as Eddie Nunez, Andrew Hartman, etc. Both of which, if I remember correctly, were part of NHS at some point in time. I think that a Varsity with a GPA that is almost Scholastic shows a person who may have a general apathy for school, but still has a great work ethic(Something that MAKES a decathlete even more so than intelligence.)

This. Part of the reason Wisconsin Varsities, specifically Emma, Jack, and Ty, are so strong is because they have a love for learning and a distaste for school, resulting in high 2 point GPAs. This is why Varsities blew away Scholastics in WI. In our case, our top two Scholastics were a borderline Honors (Abby, who crushed objectives but struggled subjectively) and a borderline Varsity (myself, who was the opposite for the most part). A 100-point difference supports my theory that there is no perfect Scholastic - just a solid, intelligent student who is essential to a team's success. Not as much as an Eddie Nunez, but those don't come around as often.
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Guest_tryingtothinkagain_*
post Mar 21 2012, 01:02 PM
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My best score was 84xx as a 2.97 (or something absurdly close to the border) varsity. Just my two cents.
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Guest_JBroms_*
post Mar 21 2012, 05:04 PM
Post #74





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QUOTE (Tad Walters @ Mar 21 2012, 07:30 AM) *
QUOTE (JBroms @ Mar 20 2012, 07:47 PM) *
About people intentionally lowering their grades, I've heard this argument before, and out of every great varsity I have ever talked to, I don't believe a single one has sandbagged their grades. Eddie Nunez, Dylan Verdan, and Colin Calle all competed for one year as a scholastic, and some of the greatest have even had sub-2.0 grade point averages. Considering the potential effects it could have on getting into colleges, I doubt any student would intentionally lower their grades in such a fashion.




I disagree. From my experience, the BEST varsities are the ones that are borderline Scholastics, such as Eddie Nunez, Andrew Hartman, etc. Both of which, if I remember correctly, were part of NHS at some point in time. I think that a Varsity with a GPA that is almost Scholastic shows a person who may have a general apathy for school, but still has a great work ethic(Something that MAKES a decathlete even more so than intelligence.)


Ryan Ramlow had a 1.8.

I also think someone may have posted on the old board that David Florey was also in this category, but I could be wrong.

This post has been edited by JBroms: Mar 21 2012, 05:09 PM
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Guest_Widget!_*
post Mar 21 2012, 05:17 PM
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I started out with a dick-awful GPA, and worked my way back into decent. Think I might have almost had a 3.0 by the end of high school. Good varsities simply are; I'm honestly not sure there's any sort of rubric or trend.
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Guest_JackLosiStrader_*
post Mar 21 2012, 07:24 PM
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Not to start a intelligence vs. hard work debate, but I wouldn't say a good work ethic is everything in decathlon. For example, our third varsity this year gave up on all subjects beyond super quiz, and put in around as much time as we did on all ten on just that. Some members of my team believed he tuned it out or that he essentially just didn't pay attention while working. But seeing how disappointed he was that he scored mid-400's in Super Quiz convinced me of one fact: No matter how hard you work, if Academic Decathlon doesn't click with you, you cannot score a good score. Now this doesn't mean he wasn't an intelligent kid, it just means he wasn't cut out for Acdec. I think it's that unnameable quality that makes your top decathletes, followed by work ethic and intelligence.

And personal skills, of course.
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Guest_Crow_*
post Mar 21 2012, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE (Widget! @ Mar 21 2012, 10:17 AM) *
Good varsities simply are; I'm honestly not sure there's any sort of rubric or trend.

That.
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Guest_magicblueman_*
post Mar 21 2012, 08:15 PM
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Thread successfully derailed!
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Mar 22 2012, 05:58 AM
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While I've certainly seen teams whose varsities scored higher than scholastics (including my freshman year team), this hasn't been the norm. In general honors scored highest, then scholastic, then varsity. I always thought the reverse order would be more logical since varsities would neglect their school work and thus have more time to study!
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Guest_Herohito_*
post Mar 22 2012, 06:08 AM
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QUOTE (AK_WDB @ Mar 21 2012, 10:58 PM) *
While I've certainly seen teams whose varsities scored higher than scholastics (including my freshman year team), this hasn't been the norm. In general honors scored highest, then scholastic, then varsity. I always thought the reverse order would be more logical since varsities would neglect their school work and thus have more time to study!

To be fair, honors are, as a whole, naturally smarter and better at math/sci/essay. This doesn't mean there won't be exceptions, but the pattern will stick.
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