IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Discussion: Alternatives to H/S/V Division, Are changes necessary in an evolving Decathlon landscape?
nixonotis
post Jun 19 2017, 08:13 PM
Post #1


Advanced Member
***

Group: Soylent Greens
Posts: 95
Joined: 12-November 12
Member No.: 252,908



Hi everyone!

Long-time lurker here...I've spent more years in Decathlon as an "outsider" (via Decademy and now Xathlon) than a participant, but the inner-workings of Decathlon (and academic competitions in general! I had some fun with World Scholar's Cup back in the day, too) have always been a topic of interest to me.

So I wanted to drum up some discussion. With conversations about international schools and differences between states (and even schools within a state), as well as conversations about school divisions (e.g., Large, Medium, Small, Magnet, etc.), do we think that the current method for dividing students into the 3 divisions (honors, scholastic, and varsity) based on GPA ranges is flawed? And if so, what would you propose as a way to "fix" this, while still maintaining the integrity of the program?

Arguably one of the greatest benefits of the Academic Decathlon is that it gives Varsity (and Scholastic) students an opportunity to be academically competitive when they may not have a chance otherwise. I have heard criticisms of other programs (World Scholar's Cup, as an example) come from the fact that they only target the "best" students from schools, and thus eliminate this special-to-Decathlon element.

Would love to hear everyone's thoughts and proposed alternatives! I'll write an example in the comments.


--------------------
Nick Synodis
Mountain View Mesa High School
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nixonotis
post Jun 19 2017, 08:29 PM
Post #2


Advanced Member
***

Group: Soylent Greens
Posts: 95
Joined: 12-November 12
Member No.: 252,908



I don't think this "solves" it, but I tried to toy around with a potential solution based on some basic statistics.

A, B, and C mean something completely different from school to school, and especially from country to country (I don't even know how other countries do it), but I think most schools have some version of a GPA.

My thought is, what if we considered the distribution of GPA's at a school when determining division? Assuming a normal distribution (we can probably do better, but this is just a thought exercise), we could get an average GPA and standard deviation from a school. Then, the "lines in the sand" for divisions could come from the z-score (or how many standard deviations away from the mean) a student's GPA is. Where those lines in the sand are is yet to be determined, but it could be something like Honors students are 2 st. dev above the mean for their school, Scholastics are between the 1 and and 2 st. dev above, and varsities are below 1 st. dev...but again, it would require some analysis to draw those lines.

One problem I see is school size. For really small schools (say, less than n = 30), the assumption of a normal distribution might get wonky, but also you could have "stacked" schools where they only let in students with certain GPA's (or they artificially inflate/deflate GPA). Don't we already have this today, though, with the current system?

Anyway, it may seem overly mathematical, but this would be doable with basic Excel formulas...this could get a lot more intense tongue.gif

As a side note, I am also curious what everyone thinks about the selection of which courses count towards the GPA. That adds a whole can of worms and bureaucracy to an already slow system. In a system like the one above (or in any system you propose!), would there be any benefit to simply taking whatever GPA the school uses into account and ignoring individual classes?

Looking forward to discussing with everyone smile.gif


--------------------
Nick Synodis
Mountain View Mesa High School
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stanley Tree
post Jun 20 2017, 01:34 AM
Post #3


Don't compare my beat with his...
***

Group: Nazgul
Posts: 2,561
Joined: 1-May 09
From: Dulles High School, Sugar Land, Texas
Member No.: 14



The math is just too much for anyone to realistically do. The thing about the schools from China is that they seem to have a different make-up of students than schools in the states, and I'm sure they're not the only nation. I really like our system due to its simplicity, but maybe it does need a change. Each school has it's own grading scale so that makes it tougher to make any widespread change- for example, I'd think it would be smart to lower the A GPA requirement, but most schools would call that crazy since they have a harder time getting scholastics. We have a tough school which makes that different. A "class rank" set up would not be terrible- maybe top 7.5%/top 15%/everyone else? That would make it hard for smaller schools, but I don't think that's the only thing holding them back. I would say that most varsities are fit the mold of varsity, and honors do as well as is. I don't think a change is needed in the states, but it does make the international conversion tough.


--------------------
Academic Decathlon Coach, Dulles High School
2017 Texas Large School State Champion
AP World History teacher
Former Varsity Head Coach, Girls Soccer


Pearland High School '08
2008 Team State champion
2008 Varsity State champion

“It’s all these guys. They’ve been with us for a while. They believe in each other. They put up with me and go out and do it better the next day. They’ve got the courage of a lion.” - Frank Martin
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Scholastic Under...
post Jun 20 2017, 02:36 AM
Post #4


Advanced Member
***

Group: Coach Class
Posts: 270
Joined: 11-January 15
From: Katy, Texas
Member No.: 671,637



I agree with most every point brought up in this thread, but this is something that could still fix things in the states as well. The main issue I think of whenever considering the current way we do divisions, as far as the US goes, is the massive discrepancy in the difficulty of different schools. For example, at my alma mater Morton Ranch, reaching an Honors-level GPA is not exactly something that one could call difficult. Students who would struggle regardless of the school environment aside, there's certainly something to be said about different schools' environments in terms of things like competition and rigor. Just within the state of Texas, take examples like Morton and Coppell. The former is a school that the top 10% is a distinction that means little and that hasn't cranked out a national merit semi finalist in something like 8 years, while the former is a school with dozens of individuals fighting for the top 10 spots in the class and cranks out in excess of a dozen NM semi finalists and finalists every year. Even within my own district, with my level of effort (none), I certainly would have been a Varsity if I had gone to a school like Taylor or Seven Lakes. I imagine at a lot of these schools, hearing that a 3.1 unweighted GPA is top 10% would be unimaginable to many, much less the fact that the #9 student in the 2017 senior class was a Scholastic (and not borderline either). When taking into consideration the atmospheres at other schools across the country, this problem only magnifies.

None of this is to say that the current system is horrifically flawed in my eyes or anything like that; however, I think there is certainly room for improvement. I don't believe a class rank-based system would be ideal, for that would lend itself even more to the issue of topheavy schools with their top 20% consisting of almost entirely Honors (under the current system) having an enormous advantage on everybody else. I don't necessarily have a solution, but I will put some thought into ideas and add them as I think of them.

This post has been edited by Scholastic Underdog: Jun 20 2017, 02:39 AM


--------------------
Nicholas Welch
MRHS Scholastic 2013-2016
E-Nats Scholastic Score Record Holder
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stealer of Souls
post Jun 20 2017, 08:00 PM
Post #5


Advanced Member
***

Group: Coach Class
Posts: 547
Joined: 13-October 09
From: Fresno
Member No.: 284



Grading is very arbitrary. I lost a scholastic one year because her Trig teacher gave her extra credit to color the cover of her notebook. It moved her from an 83 to a 90. From a MUCH needed scholastic to someone not trying out because of a loaded Honors field. At my school we've added pathways. The classes are all collaborative and project based so none of the courses count for decathlon credit. University High students take multiple courses from Fresno State professors in college classes for both high school and college credit. I would assume this would help make more scholastics and varsities with Freshman and sophomores taking college courses. My school had 84 "valedictorians" (people with 4.00 and above). Our school caps it with 8 semesters of Honors or AP courses getting .04 extra. Max GPA 4.32. We had 14 of those. When 84 of 550 people are valedictorians its cutting down your possibilities for finding scholastics and varsities who can fog a mirror.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ridgepoinths
post Jun 20 2017, 10:13 PM
Post #6


Advanced Member
***

Group: Coach Class
Posts: 36
Joined: 10-November 12
From: Houston, Texas
Member No.: 252,079



So here's my question on your initial question. Is there any communication between USAD and coaches about this kind of concern or feedback from coaches at all as to ways to improve the program? A few years ago when they went to two state reps per state and then quickly went back to one was there any feedback from coaches on which system they preferred? It just seems to this fairly new coach (in AcDec terms - four years now as a full-time coach) that there is absolutely no feedback between USAD or our state organization and the coaches. I went to one training session a few years ago and even there we weren't surveyed as to ideas we might have had to improve USAD. We've made it to state the last two years and haven't been asked there for our input either. I'd love to hear of a survey, a forum for providing suggestions, our comments on how the competition went in any given year to get a sense if USAD is interested in hearing new ideas from coaches and/or former competitors.

Also, to respond to one part of the initial post in this thread, as a coach of students who has competed in both AcDec and World Scholar's Cup, I'm not sure I would agree that AcDec gives varsity or scholastic students a chance to compete on an even keel while WSC does not. We've produced winning teams at the Houston region of WSC in three of the last four years and finished second the other year and half of those three-person teams had a "varsity" AcDec team member as part of the trio. It's all about who works the hardest. I've had WSC trios of three honors score much lower than two scholastics and a varsity - as many as 6,000 points lower which is really the same as three AcDec 8,500-point individual finishes versus three AcDec 6,500-point finishes. My kids will continue to train and compete for both as I think both competitions equally provide outlets for promoting individual-based learning and academic challenges.

Looking forward to hearing other thoughts here too.


--------------------
Academic Decathlon Coach, Ridge Point High School, Texas
State Qualifiers 2016 (medium school level) and 2017 (large school level)
World Scholar's Cup Houston Regional Team Champs, 2014, 2015, 2017
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nixonotis
post Jun 21 2017, 03:45 PM
Post #7


Advanced Member
***

Group: Soylent Greens
Posts: 95
Joined: 12-November 12
Member No.: 252,908



QUOTE (Stanley Tree @ Jun 19 2017, 06:34 PM) *
The math is just too much for anyone to realistically do.

You're not wrong. I was envisioning more of a black box approach, where transcripts would be submitted and a third party would do the work. I don't think it's sustainable because of how much work it would entail, but simply having this discussion, I think, has led to some pretty interesting points about what the real problem actually is...

QUOTE (Scholastic Underdog @ Jun 19 2017, 07:36 PM) *
Students who would struggle regardless of the school environment aside, there's certainly something to be said about different schools' environments in terms of things like competition and rigor.

Great points. I think this really hints at the fact that the division-ing may not serve the purpose it intends. If there is so much variability from school to school, this undermines the original intent of the system, and where it may be extremely difficult to get varsities for one school, it's simple for others.

QUOTE (Stealer of Souls @ Jun 20 2017, 01:00 PM) *
Grading is very arbitrary... My school had 84 "valedictorians" (people with 4.00 and above). Our school caps it with 8 semesters of Honors or AP courses getting .04 extra. Max GPA 4.32. We had 14 of those. When 84 of 550 people are valedictorians its cutting down your possibilities for finding scholastics and varsities who can fog a mirror.

Yeah, this has been one of my biggest concerns w/ the current approach, completely disregarding international schools. Grading is arbitrary, especially on a school-to-school basis...

QUOTE (ridgepoinths @ Jun 20 2017, 03:13 PM) *
So here's my question on your initial question. Is there any communication between USAD and coaches about this kind of concern or feedback from coaches at all as to ways to improve the program? A few years ago when they went to two state reps per state and then quickly went back to one was there any feedback from coaches on which system they preferred?

Also, to respond to one part of the initial post in this thread, as a coach of students who has competed in both AcDec and World Scholar's Cup, I'm not sure I would agree that AcDec gives varsity or scholastic students a chance to compete on an even keel while WSC does not. We've produced winning teams at the Houston region of WSC in three of the last four years and finished second the other year and half of those three-person teams had a "varsity" AcDec team member as part of the trio. It's all about who works the hardest. I've had WSC trios of three honors score much lower than two scholastics and a varsity - as many as 6,000 points lower which is really the same as three AcDec 8,500-point individual finishes versus three AcDec 6,500-point finishes. My kids will continue to train and compete for both as I think both competitions equally provide outlets for promoting individual-based learning and academic challenges.

Your first point: There's some, but it's disjoint, and it's not consistent. USAD is by no means a modern company. When you think of the speed of their feedback loops, they have a state director's meeting once per year, where feedback comes from coaches and students, then to directors, and then the directors represent their state, and once a year they get a chance to hear what went right/wrong. Compare this to, say, Amazon or Facebook (maybe not an apt comparison, but it's worthwhile to look at the extremes), who run experiments on customer segments every single day to improve their product offerings. It's just different. Injecting my own opinion, I don't think USAD will be able to keep up with systemic changes/customer needs, but you really have to look in awe at the fact that it's still a relatively large, competitive program (though shrinking) despite these challenges. It just goes to show how valuable of a learning experiences people see it as.

Your second point: You hit the nail on the head. It's all about who works the hardest. Synthesizing everyone's points so far, I don't think my question/identification of the problem was correct. It's not that the H/S/V division-ing needs to be changed in some way...I think it needs to be considered whether there should be divisions at all.

How can coaches/teachers get Scholastic and Varsity-level students to participate in Academic Decathlon, offering them a value proposition other than the fact that they'll 1) get a lot of medals or 2) provide the team a huge score boost since no one else has good Scholastics/Varsities in their region/district. That is, how can we motivate students with lower GPA's to be competitive academically, and does it need to be an incentive systemically, or some other way? Just a thought.

Great discussion so far, everyone smile.gif


--------------------
Nick Synodis
Mountain View Mesa High School
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
zzzptm
post Jun 21 2017, 09:57 PM
Post #8


HRH, King of DemiDecTalk and of DDT Dominions Beyond the Seas
***

Group: Emeritus
Posts: 8,388,607
Joined: 1-May 09
Member No.: 1



ACDEC COACH: Why are you trying to kill my program?
OVERLY GENEROUS ENGLISH TEACHER: What do you mean?
ACDEC COACH: You gave one of my Varsities an *A*!!!
ocmhmm.jpg

On the serious side, I had an idea... allow honors and scholastics to compete at a lower GPA level, with the following caveat: all scores are discounted.

An honors competing as a scholastic has a 10% overall score reduction. Honors as Varsity has a 20% score reduction. Scholastic as Varsity has a 10% reduction.

This way, you can have nine honors students compete, but they are at a handicap relative to "pure" students from other schools. On the other hand, if you have nothing but go-getters at your campus, you can have a team of 100% go-getters.


--------------------
The "m" is silent and "Zzzptm" is only one syllable...
"The world could perish if people only worked on things that were easy to handle." -- Vladimir Savchenko
"Plan B is Plan A with an element of panic." -- John Clarke
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stanley Tree
post Jun 22 2017, 12:44 AM
Post #9


Don't compare my beat with his...
***

Group: Nazgul
Posts: 2,561
Joined: 1-May 09
From: Dulles High School, Sugar Land, Texas
Member No.: 14



You guys cannot seriously think removing varsities from the equation is a good idea. They are the people who benefit the most from this program if it is done right. if you want to remove varsities or allow people to play down and remove the varsities, then the spirit of what decathlon is is broken. The amount of varsities I have seen go from lazy do-nothing kids to unstoppable academic machines is too many to count.- and many of them did not even do well in decathlon Varsities can be hard to find, and I lucked into finding a school that has no problem producing varsities. Finding and then coaching varsities is the hardest part of the job, and many schools have a GPA system that makes it harder, BUT there are varsities up and down the GPA scale. The best have been those one B away from scholastics, as well as those who had failed multiple classes. They are at any school with any size.

QUOTE
How can coaches/teachers get Scholastic and Varsity-level students to participate in Academic Decathlon, offering them a value proposition other than the fact that they'll 1) get a lot of medals or 2) provide the team a huge score boost since no one else has good Scholastics/Varsities in their region/district. That is, how can we motivate students with lower GPA's to be competitive academically, and does it need to be an incentive systemically, or some other way? Just a thought.


You cannot appeal to something they do not understand. You appeal to everyone's innate desire to BE BETTER. Every person wants to improve in some way. Many varsities know exactly how little they work, and deep down want to change it, but the system of education they have been in is unappealing or untenable for them, or they have a home system that does not help them work harder, so it just continues along unchanged. If you can get a varsity to understand their desire to improve, boost their spirits whenever they do something right, don't let them give up, and create someone who is consistent and hard-working, then you have motivated a varsity, or any student. Breach that competitive spirit most people have day in and day out- we have a moving scoreboard every day for them to see where they are. Put them in a comfortable place they want to be- too much time of our meetings is spent goofing off, but it we did not do that, people would be less motivated to work. I can show you any and all schedules we do (and would love to if anyone wants to see it), but it doesn't mean a darn thing if you don't have a connection with the kids.

Finding out how to motivate a varsity (or scholastic or honor really) outside of "this is GHC, you know what to do" is what makes people great coaches. No offense to GHC bc they built it to where it is for that statement to be true.


--------------------
Academic Decathlon Coach, Dulles High School
2017 Texas Large School State Champion
AP World History teacher
Former Varsity Head Coach, Girls Soccer


Pearland High School '08
2008 Team State champion
2008 Varsity State champion

“It’s all these guys. They’ve been with us for a while. They believe in each other. They put up with me and go out and do it better the next day. They’ve got the courage of a lion.” - Frank Martin
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Scholastic Under...
post Jun 22 2017, 05:39 AM
Post #10


Advanced Member
***

Group: Coach Class
Posts: 270
Joined: 11-January 15
From: Katy, Texas
Member No.: 671,637



Being a Scholastic myself and befriending people like Wes Scivetti, Rachel Schafer, Sam Warren, and Wrik Chakrabarti, among many others, I think there's certainly something to be said about a hard-to-describe magical quality that comes from watching a less-than-stellar student come into Decathlon and stand toe-to-toe with the perennial bad-arses.

Take Wes for instance. His scores two years ago were nothing short of insane, making him easily the greatest Texas Scholastic of all time, and definitely one of the greatest Decathletes to ever compete. He was not only the top Scholastic Texas has ever had by a margin of almost 220 points, but he was also the top scorer out of all divisions, setting a new overall state score record. While Wes is certainly no slouch academically, being a National Merit (Semi?)finalist and an 8k Scholastic in the first year after Rockwall lost Gear, he's an example of somebody who was able to excel beyond what he did within the four walls of the classroom, and his name will likely go down in Decathlon history as one of the greats, even years down the line. He was an enormous driving force behind the success of Rockwall back in 2016, and if not for him, the team possibly never would have recovered from the loss of Gear (not that Beville and Hinton aren't awesome!)

Wrik is another fantastic example--a Varsity who, while decent as a Decathlete before his senior year, never accomplished a huge amount academically. Fast forward to the 2015-16 season, and he was rather suddenly making a name for himself as one of the best Varsities in the state, taking 2nd at USAD Easy and taking a demanding lead at USAD Medium. Through a ridiculous (and yes, I do truly mean ridiculous) amount of work, he not only won state in his division, but also was the first and only Texas Varsity to ever break 9,000. Wrik's grades also inclined in a similar fashion, as Decathlon gave him the motivation to be successful in the classroom the same way he was in competition. Now in college, he's a strong student who maintains grades one wouldn't usually expect from the typical "Varsity" student, and it's thanks to Decathlon that he's able to be so driven and successful.

While I am certainly not at the level of Wes or Wrik, I myself am an example of somebody who was weak in school but found my place in Decathlon. My first two years in Decathlon, I was sub-par to say the least, with a 5.5k and 7.0k max score my Sophomore and Junior years respectively. My senior year, I was on par to be on a similar level, likely raising my score just by inflation. I had less-than impressive showings at my first two scrimmages, finishing out of the top 5 at Easy with a 5,200 and finishing 4th at the Friendswood meet. However, I safely won our Round 1 competition (which, to be fair, had next to no competition for me other than our S2), and at that point realized that maybe I could actually be alright at Decathlon. I didn't study much at all between then and R2, but through tutoring my friends in Decathlon strengthened both my team and myself. Come R2, I wasn't confident at all, and was rather defeatist in my expectation of being crushed by Allison Yelvington, who was a strong Scholastic to say the very least. Come the award ceremony, my name got called 9 times for medals, with something like 5 of those being golds. I had beaten my previous max score by 1600 points out of no where, and suddenly skyrocketed to the third spot overall in Texas. Not only that, but through the effort of myself and our S2 Patrick (who himself pulled off a record high score of 8,399.8, I believe), we were able to push Morton dozens of ranks ahead of where we had ever been before, entering state in 8th place and beating consistently-strong Taylor High School for the first time ever. Without the strength we had in our lower divisions (17k+ from Scholastics and about 13.5k from Varsities), we never would have been able to accomplish any of what we did then. My personal showing at State was less-than impressive, and Morton gave up its spot in the top 10, but that motivated me to actually study for once and put in my all for Nationals. Through that hard work, I was able to set a score record for E-nats and take home 7/8 golds and a silver. If not for Decathlon, I never would have known how to study, nor would I have ever been academically-challenged, coming from an easy high school.

We're only a few examples of people in lower divisions who have benefited enormously from Decathlon, and I have to agree with Hartman's sentiment that making a system where you can play down Honors would greatly lessen the capabilities of stories like these to come into existence. If a school has a lot of High-GPA kids, then it'd be really easy to overlook the future life-changing experiences we lower-GPA students would experience in favor of the higher perceived reliability of students with better grades. When an Honors breaks 8k, nobody bats an eyelash nowadays. But when a Varsity comes in and is able to emerge from a weak program and break that score threshold, we all take notice. There's something about the underdog story that we all love. A structure that allows for the playing of Honors as Scholastics and Varsities would destroy that. And then where would the Scholastic Underdog be? Not in Decathlon, that's for sure.

TL;DR Decathlon benefits lower-GPA kids a ridiculous amount, don't take that away from them just because some schools could theoretically boost their scores by being able to bring down their Honors into those fields.

This post has been edited by Scholastic Underdog: Jun 22 2017, 05:49 AM


--------------------
Nicholas Welch
MRHS Scholastic 2013-2016
E-Nats Scholastic Score Record Holder
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Stealer of Souls
post Jun 22 2017, 06:37 PM
Post #11


Advanced Member
***

Group: Coach Class
Posts: 547
Joined: 13-October 09
From: Fresno
Member No.: 284



QUOTE (zzzptm @ Jun 21 2017, 02:57 PM) *
ACDEC COACH: Why are you trying to kill my program?
OVERLY GENEROUS ENGLISH TEACHER: What do you mean?
ACDEC COACH: You gave one of my Varsities an *A*!!!
ocmhmm.jpg

On the serious side, I had an idea... allow honors and scholastics to compete at a lower GPA level, with the following caveat: all scores are discounted.

An honors competing as a scholastic has a 10% overall score reduction. Honors as Varsity has a 20% score reduction. Scholastic as Varsity has a 10% reduction.

This way, you can have nine honors students compete, but they are at a handicap relative to "pure" students from other schools. On the other hand, if you have nothing but go-getters at your campus, you can have a team of 100% go-getters.


I like this because I know there were many years I only had 7 or 8 because I just couldn't get another Scholastic or Varsity. It doesn't punish the other kids who joined. They could still compete as individuals and as a team. A 4th place honors of 8000 becomes a 6400 point varsity. Nice. Kind of sucks for that kid's medal chances individually though.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nixonotis
post Jun 22 2017, 09:08 PM
Post #12


Advanced Member
***

Group: Soylent Greens
Posts: 95
Joined: 12-November 12
Member No.: 252,908



QUOTE (Stanley Tree @ Jun 21 2017, 05:44 PM) *
You guys cannot seriously think removing varsities from the equation is a good idea.

No, but I'm definitely willing to entertain the idea as part of a discussion. In the current version of Decathlon, this would absolutely destroy it.
QUOTE
If you can get a varsity to understand their desire to improve, boost their spirits whenever they do something right, don't let them give up, and create someone who is consistent and hard-working, then you have motivated a varsity, or any student. Breach that competitive spirit most people have day in and day out- we have a moving scoreboard every day for them to see where they are. Put them in a comfortable place they want to be- too much time of our meetings is spent goofing off, but it we did not do that, people would be less motivated to work.

100% this (and everything you said). The key (well, one among many) is to take the competitive part of what's going on and turn the knob to 11. Make it a game. Make it fun. Make it so that they have to find any way they can to improve.

Once again, I appreciate everyone taking the time to discuss this in an open manner. There's not enough of this, I don't think, other than water cooler talk at competitions. If we ever want to see change and improvement, we have to open up discussion and start figuring out what we actually want.


--------------------
Nick Synodis
Mountain View Mesa High School
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
zzzptm
post Jul 1 2017, 03:22 PM
Post #13


HRH, King of DemiDecTalk and of DDT Dominions Beyond the Seas
***

Group: Emeritus
Posts: 8,388,607
Joined: 1-May 09
Member No.: 1



Gotta face facts, though... grades are becoming strange things and the GPA ideas of several decades ago are being affected by some fundamental changes in education, where the average kid is now above average...


--------------------
The "m" is silent and "Zzzptm" is only one syllable...
"The world could perish if people only worked on things that were easy to handle." -- Vladimir Savchenko
"Plan B is Plan A with an element of panic." -- John Clarke
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
nixonotis
post Jul 1 2017, 05:10 PM
Post #14


Advanced Member
***

Group: Soylent Greens
Posts: 95
Joined: 12-November 12
Member No.: 252,908



QUOTE (zzzptm @ Jul 1 2017, 08:22 AM) *
Gotta face facts, though... grades are becoming strange things and the GPA ideas of several decades ago are being affected by some fundamental changes in education, where the average kid is now above average...

Exactly why I thought it might be worth having this discussion!


--------------------
Nick Synodis
Mountain View Mesa High School
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
acadecker
post Jul 3 2017, 09:40 PM
Post #15


Advanced Member
***

Group: Coach Class
Posts: 304
Joined: 14-May 09
From: Arizona
Member No.: 168



Recent stats on grades received in college:

http://college.usatoday.com/2017/06/26/wha...an-to-get-an-a/



--------------------
After 24 years of coaching at South Mountain I decided it was time to leave my school and district. I wish you all the best; please enjoy what you do.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th July 2017 - 06:56 AM