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> SOPA/Protect IP Act, Internet censorship FTW?
Guest_beregond_*
post Dec 17 2011, 04:26 PM
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So I don't know how many people on these boards are paying attention to the SOPA/PIPA issue, but I'd like to hear, perhaps, other viewpoints on this. Mine most closely follows this particular guy. I'd definitely watch all the video - the caster is quite an intelligent guy, from outside our borders, has studied law, and goes over the issue and what's really being attacked here.
However, as just a synopsis of the bill, sites would be blanket-blocked, or have large portions of them blocked, for hosting copyrighted material, rather than the current state of affairs, which is a certain amount of policing by the site itself and, if it gets out of hand, prosecution of the users themselves. This is a bill that will essentially enforce internet censorship (due to 'copyright infringement' being already used fairly loosely) on a wide scale, far beyond anything before. I don't think anyone doubts that internet piracy is a huge problem. However, this is not the way to solve it; a blanket ban on portions of the internet hurts our culture expressively, our freedoms politically, and our economy. I don't want to go into huge detail, as there's a lot to go over in the video, but if you haven't been informed already as to the contents of the bill, educate yourselves and learn the possible dangers.
For those who have been in the know already, as well as those who have been paying attention, what's your opinion on the acts?
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Guest_Widget!_*
post Dec 17 2011, 06:35 PM
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Remember how a few days ago, UMG got an ORIGINAL WORK commissioned by Megaupload, featuring multiple UMG artists who were singing BRAND NEW CONTENT NOT UNDER UMG COPYRIGHT taken down repeatedly? Yeah. No American company can be trusted with the stupid smurfing framework we currently have to deal with piracy--there's no way handing them the keys to the smurfing city like SOPA intends to will help.
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Guest_JBroms_*
post Dec 18 2011, 04:40 PM
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HEY GUYS REMEMBER ME!?

To the point though, if this bill were to pass, I could be labeled as a felon. I've gotten pretty serious into eSports and streaming lately. SOPA would make unauthorized livestreaming of copyrighted content a felony punishable by up to five years in prison, and gameplay isn't clearly defined. Five years in prison for making a fool of yourself on the internet. Five years because my friends want to watch me play CoD from miles away.

On top of that, the bill would just simply kill eSports. How many big video game tournaments do you think could actually get permission to stream from the developers? MLG maybe, but that's about it. Whether you care about competitive gaming or not, I'm sure you can at least agree that an entire industry doesn't need to be killed. Justin.tv, Twitch.tv, Ustream.tv, own3d? Say goodbye to all of them. You enjoy watching grown men scream like 5 year old girls as they play through Amnesia: The Dark Descent? Goodbye to that too.
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Guest_dizzyizzy_*
post Dec 21 2011, 03:53 AM
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The most disturbing thing to me about this bill isn't what it's trying to do, or what it will, in actuality, accomplish, but the attitude towards it. Watching the panel discussion of it last week, several of the congresspersons involved in the debate took it as a mark of pride they didn't understand the internet or how it works. They were proud of their ignorance, as though not understanding technology made them somehow a better person. And yet, they find themselves fit to discuss a bill that is deeply rooted in how the internet works. It's absolutely vile.

I just shut off the discussion when I heard one of them say "I talked to a gentleman from Virgin Media yesterday, and let me tell you what they said."
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Guest_Research Monkey_*
post Dec 23 2011, 12:59 PM
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As technology progresses, we ask weak-minded and hard-headed old men and women to regulate more and more of the inner workings of our modern world. Democracy, ladies and gentlemen.
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Dec 24 2011, 02:36 AM
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I don't know enough about the Internet to know whether this is a good idea, so unlike those congressmen, I'll refrain from entering the debate.

However, I will say this. Computer and Internet geeks are notorious for coming across as arrogant, condescending know-it-alls. Those members of Congress may not know a great deal about the Internet, but most of them actually aren't dumb people, and they're likely tired of people telling them "you're not an expert on the Internet so it's none of your business." The reality is that members of Congress have to regulate all sorts of things they aren't experts on. So what you interpreted as being proud of their ignorance may have been defensiveness on their part, trying to say "I'm not an Internet expert but I'm not an idiot either." Politicians are people too.
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Guest_dizzyizzy_*
post Dec 24 2011, 03:44 AM
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Asking to "skip over the technical jargon" and saying there's no need for them to talk to experts isn't saying "I'm not an idiot either," it's saying "I'm completely unfit for my job." It's not that it's none of their business because they're not experts. But it sure as hell is none of their business if they refuse to even try to understand.

http://www.uproxx.com/webculture/2011/12/p...-funny-anymore/
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Guest_Widget!_*
post Dec 24 2011, 04:09 AM
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QUOTE (AK_WDB @ Dec 23 2011, 07:36 PM) *
I don't know enough about the Internet to know whether this is a good idea, so unlike those congressmen, I'll refrain from entering the debate.

However, I will say this. Computer and Internet geeks are notorious for coming across as arrogant, condescending know-it-alls. Those members of Congress may not know a great deal about the Internet, but most of them actually aren't dumb people, and they're likely tired of people telling them "you're not an expert on the Internet so it's none of your business." The reality is that members of Congress have to regulate all sorts of things they aren't experts on. So what you interpreted as being proud of their ignorance may have been defensiveness on their part, trying to say "I'm not an Internet expert but I'm not an idiot either." Politicians are people too.


Wallowing in ignorance, and wearing your lack of understanding like a badge of honor both absolutely qualify as a display of being an idiot.

More to the point, though, refusing to listen to people who are experts on the internet and actually understand it when discussing regulating the internet because many of them come across as condescending is legitimately retarded. It's like Rick Perry being all, "I don't really understand the economy, and economists are mean to me sometimes, so I'm never going to listen to them ever again." Would the citizens of Texas stand for that? No, absolutely not, and doing the same thing about the internet is a bad idea.
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Dec 24 2011, 08:22 AM
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Of course it's a bad idea. I'm just saying that all people, including politicians, act irrationally sometimes and that doesn't make them idiots or "completely unfit for their jobs." But I've never had much success explaining that to you guys.
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Guest_Widget!_*
post Dec 24 2011, 10:33 AM
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Their job is to consult experts on topics, internalize facts, and make decisions based upon said consultation and fact-internalization. They aren't doing that. Not doing your job makes you unfit for your job.
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Dec 24 2011, 10:36 AM
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You need to learn to stop character-assassinating people, Widget, especially since you're pretty far from squeaky clean yourself (as most of us are).
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Guest_Widget!_*
post Dec 24 2011, 11:05 AM
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I'm not assassinating anyone's character--they up and committed character harekiri without me having to do a thing. The role of a congressman is to debate, consider, and decide upon legislation, is it not? And part of that means seeking the counsel and advice of experts when, inevitably, laws must be made about subjects that your random congressman knows little about, correct? But congresspersons left and right are actively ignoring the advice of non-partisan technological experts, seeking instead to listen to media companies who have a bias in passing SOPA/PIPA. Will, confront the fact that some smurfing times, my aggressive statements are categorically correct, and this is one of those times. Congress has utterly stopped doing its job--representing the populace and its interests--and is instead representing the interests of the highest bidders--in this case, a group that sued software authors for more money than exists on the planet.

It's unpleasant, but you know what, I can only think of one instance in which a congressman actually said, "you know, maybe instead of wallowing in our ignorance or eating out of the hands of the people who are hugely better off if these acts are passed, we should consult people who know what the hell is going on here."

I'm not assassinating anyone's character, Will. They're actively doing the wrong damn thing.

And if you'd like to point out for me how I'm making unjustified statements, or what part of my character should keep me from making these statements, I'm all-ears.
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Guest_Research Monkey_*
post Dec 24 2011, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (AK_WDB @ Dec 23 2011, 08:36 PM) *
I don't know enough about the Internet to know whether this is a good idea, so unlike those congressmen, I'll refrain from entering the debate.

However, I will say this. Computer and Internet geeks are notorious for coming across as arrogant, condescending know-it-alls. Those members of Congress may not know a great deal about the Internet, but most of them actually aren't dumb people, and they're likely tired of people telling them "you're not an expert on the Internet so it's none of your business." The reality is that members of Congress have to regulate all sorts of things they aren't experts on. So what you interpreted as being proud of their ignorance may have been defensiveness on their part, trying to say "I'm not an Internet expert but I'm not an idiot either." Politicians are people too.


They're not really in any place to defend themselves. It's nice and all that they're not stupid, but that's small consolation to the people their nearly inevitable blunders will actually impact.
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Dec 24 2011, 09:12 PM
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I really hate having to rehash my old posts, but...

My original post on the matter was just trying to provide an explanation for the congressmen's behavior, not justifying it. Dealing with people, including politicians, involves trying to understand their motivation and the causes of their behavior, whether rational or not.

My second post objected to your calling them "unfit for their job" because, in my experience, most politicians are a mixed bag of very good and very silly ideas. You never get one who always does the right thing.

Hope that can clear up the argument.

@dizzyizzy: your article takes issue with members of Congress "not even trying" to learn about the Internet. They don't have time to learn about the Internet. I think Widget is more on the mark when he says they should listen to experts. But that also requires people to "translate" very technical language into language the layman can understand. Getting rid of the technical jargon isn't a bad thing; there are lots of people in the world whose job is to communicate things about science and technology to people without that background.
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Guest_Research Monkey_*
post Dec 24 2011, 11:17 PM
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QUOTE (AK_WDB @ Dec 24 2011, 02:12 PM) *
My second post objected to your calling them "unfit for their job" because, in my experience, most politicians are a mixed bag of very good and very silly ideas. You never get one who always does the right thing.


These people are charged with ensuring the stability and prosperity of the most influential and powerful government institution the world has ever known, which governs the most successful geo-political entity in modern history in a time of unrivaled innovation, development, and wealth.

I am distinctinly unimpressed by a "mixed bag" given that task. That sounds to me like the definition of unfit for their job, whereas you seem to define their career aptitude by how well they perform relative to their peers.
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Dec 25 2011, 03:59 AM
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QUOTE (Research Monkey @ Dec 24 2011, 02:17 PM) *
I am distinctinly unimpressed by a "mixed bag" given that task. That sounds to me like the definition of unfit for their job, whereas you seem to define their career aptitude by how well they perform relative to their peers.

Don't have anything else to judge it on really. Like you, I can wish for a more educated and more objective Congress, but I can't say for sure how much better the results would or could be.
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Guest_Research Monkey_*
post Dec 25 2011, 06:43 AM
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I demand ideal Platonic philosopher-kings.
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Dec 25 2011, 10:24 PM
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QUOTE (debator @ Dec 25 2011, 06:31 AM) *
i mean, you're great and everything, but i really just want to philosopher-rule you as a friend.

9.5
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Guest_VarsityBoy_*
post Dec 26 2011, 01:40 AM
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QUOTE (Research Monkey @ Dec 25 2011, 06:43 AM) *
I demand ideal Platonic philosopher-kings.

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Guest_dizzyizzy_*
post Jan 6 2012, 07:23 PM
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Lamar Smith lies some more
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