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> Republican Presidential Primaries, Who are the best candidates?
VarsityBoy
post May 21 2011, 02:16 AM
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QUOTE (Research Monkey @ May 21 2011, 02:51 AM) *
QUOTE (AK_WDB @ May 20 2011, 04:42 PM) *
]
Gingrich is an academic and a man of ideas, no question about it,


On this one, you give the man far, far too much credit.

ayep


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AK_WDB
post May 21 2011, 05:32 AM
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VarsityBoy - many apologies, I was trying to post a reply to your post, but accidentally edited your post instead. wallbash.gif So I had to delete it, otherwise it would have been my post under your name.

I was saying that I'm very much a policy voter and think personality politics are generally useless, but in this case, "values" overlap with policy because Gingrich claims to have socially conservative principles and his history makes me wonder how well he actually understands those.
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Stanley Tree
post May 21 2011, 05:45 AM
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If you look at the last time Gingrich was powerful, he decimated the party with his hard-line forcefulness and overcontrol of the House. He can't deal with criticism, he is a foundation of vitriol and he doesn't handle power well. He's also a lightning rod, he finds power in storms but is useless to help control it.


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AK_WDB
post May 21 2011, 05:57 AM
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"Decimated the party" in what sense? The Republicans maintained control of Congress and took back the White House (though the excessive spending and debt of the Bush years hardly represent my vision for the party, nor Gingrich's, I suspect).

Forgive me, ST, if I'm skeptical that the welfare of the Republican Party is your top concern. But that's not to say you're wrong if you think Gingrich would be a bad president; I just haven't made up my mind, and I don't have to yet.
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JSC
post May 21 2011, 07:30 AM
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QUOTE (AK_WDB @ May 21 2011, 12:57 AM) *
"Decimated the party" in what sense? The Republicans maintained control of Congress and took back the White House (though the excessive spending and debt of the Bush years hardly represent my vision for the party, nor Gingrich's, I suspect).

Forgive me, ST, if I'm skeptical that the welfare of the Republican Party is your top concern. But that's not to say you're wrong if you think Gingrich would be a bad president; I just haven't made up my mind, and I don't have to yet.

I don't know if he would be a bad president, but I know he would be a bad candidate (and likely never get to be president). He has good favorables, to be sure, but his unfavorables are through the roof. The Dems could mail it in if Newt got the nomination.
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zzzptm
post May 21 2011, 01:56 PM
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He'd collapse like a house of cards in a debate with Obama. Obama's got smoove on his side. Gingrich is too earnest.

The Republicans need a candidate that doesn't appeal to only the 21 percenters. Unfortunately, that would mean they'd have a Democrat running under their banner, for all intents and purposes.


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Stanley Tree
post May 21 2011, 06:42 PM
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QUOTE (AK_WDB @ May 21 2011, 05:57 AM) *
"Decimated the party" in what sense? The Republicans maintained control of Congress and took back the White House (though the excessive spending and debt of the Bush years hardly represent my vision for the party, nor Gingrich's, I suspect).

Forgive me, ST, if I'm skeptical that the welfare of the Republican Party is your top concern. But that's not to say you're wrong if you think Gingrich would be a bad president; I just haven't made up my mind, and I don't have to yet.


Decimated may be too strong of a word, but he setback the Repubs hxc when he was Speaker of the House. The Reps had a huge national mandate off the heels of Clinton's failed healthcare plan, so the fact they lost seats in both the next two elections (with Gingrich being replaced by his own party before the '98 elections) and my opinion that the Contract With America was a big joke says that either Gingrich lost it or Clinton beat him. Either way, Gingrich got pwnd.

It seems clear to me that the Reps have to elect someone more moderate than Gingrich. They're already going to get the Religious Right no matter what happens, but they need someone to attract the ever-increasing independents that isn't living on a platform of abortion, guns, immigration, or any social issues because independents are not usually socially conservative (the typical conservative fiscal, liberal social person seems to dominate the independents). Also, it seems like one thing that just about every American hates is the vitriol and divisiveness of today's politics; if we had Gingrich as prez, it would be worse on a scale of magnitudes. That's my favorite part of Obama, he doesn't implement party baiting and partisanship near as much as he could (minus Healthcare). He's pushed some foundational ideas of the Democratic Party through, but he hasn't made every battle about who will win the partisan interests of the politicians. He's been much more about making sure America is better off than it was without proposed legislation.


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AK_WDB
post May 21 2011, 07:00 PM
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Gingrich is not a candidate especially associated with the religious right; in fact, many people think that's where he'll have problems in the primaries because of his marital history. Nor is Gingrich's platform focused on abortion, guns, or a hard-line stance on immigration; see the link Crow posted a few back. I'm actually really digging the fact that this campaign is likely to be about deficits, entitlements, and other fiscal/economic issues (though that will come with a corresponding deluge of stupid "job-creating/job-killing" rhetoric).

I agree with you about Obama, and that's largely why I voted for him in 2008; it was all about tone. But if you look under the surface, many of his criticisms of conservative positions are equally wrong, even if they're phrased more nicely. Also, when he says he's willing to work with Republicans, he usually seems to mean "I'm willing to sit down and talk about why my positions are better, but not to accept any of yours." So I feel like I may have given him too many points for that, and in 2012 I'll be voting more strictly on policy.
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AK_WDB
post May 21 2011, 11:38 PM
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QUOTE (debator @ May 21 2011, 02:29 PM) *
QUOTE (AK_WDB @ May 21 2011, 12:00 PM) *
he usually seems to mean "I'm willing to sit down and talk about why my positions are better, but not to accept any of yours."

i'm sorry, have you been asleep for six months?

I suppose you're referring to the tax cut compromise? You're right that Obama conceded to Republicans there, because he basically had no other choice except to let the tax cuts expire for everybody (which is the option I would have preferred, but wouldn't be good for his re-election prospects).
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VarsityBoy
post May 22 2011, 04:41 PM
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QUOTE (AK_WDB @ May 21 2011, 05:32 AM) *
VarsityBoy - many apologies, I was trying to post a reply to your post, but accidentally edited your post instead. wallbash.gif So I had to delete it, otherwise it would have been my post under your name.


As much as I hate identity theft that would have been hilarious.


Though you don't get away without a loladmin


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QUOTE (overly_critical_man @ Aug 29 2011, 05:23 PM) *
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"Assimilationism"
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AK_WDB
post May 22 2011, 04:46 PM
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Mitch Daniels isn't running. A bit of a disappointment for me, since I like his policy-wonk style, but the field is really starting to clear up, and that's good for those who want to figure out who to support instead of just worrying about who's running.
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VarsityBoy
post May 22 2011, 04:48 PM
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ninja poast.


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QUOTE (overly_critical_man @ Aug 29 2011, 05:23 PM) *
A great injustice
Rory McIlroy is gone
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"Assimilationism"
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dizzyizzy
post May 22 2011, 06:48 PM
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Fred Karger's entire reason for running is to oppose mormons. His debate against Mitt Romney is what I'm looking forward to.
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AK_WDB
post May 22 2011, 07:44 PM
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QUOTE (debator @ May 22 2011, 08:49 AM) *
one person i might like the in gop field, who hasn't been discussed a lot, is fred karger. he has almost no chance of winning the nom, being openly gay, but he has a great record, and i'd like to know more about him. also, i cannot wait to see him in a debate with rick santorum.

I met Fred Karger; he came and gave a talk at Dartmouth. Interesting fellow. I think you would like him, since his positions on just about everything seem to line up with the Democrats.
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Research Monkey
post May 22 2011, 07:58 PM
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With extremely limited exposure, I have thus far concluded that I actually don't mind Jon Huntsman.


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dizzyizzy
post May 22 2011, 08:03 PM
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QUOTE (wikipedia)
Huntsman is also a self-proclaimed fan of the progressive rock genre and played keyboards during high school in a band named "Wizard". On July 30, 2007, he attended a concert by progressive metal band Dream Theater. Later that day, Huntsman signed a proclamation creating "Dream Theater Day" on that date for the state of Utah



You can have my vote, and my first-born daughter.
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VarsityBoy
post May 22 2011, 08:38 PM
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QUOTE (dizzyizzy @ May 22 2011, 08:03 PM) *
QUOTE (wikipedia)
Huntsman is also a self-proclaimed fan of the progressive rock genre and played keyboards during high school in a band named "Wizard". On July 30, 2007, he attended a concert by progressive metal band Dream Theater. Later that day, Huntsman signed a proclamation creating "Dream Theater Day" on that date for the state of Utah



You can have my vote, and my first-born daughter.

Dizzy, you disgust me.


Also LETS GO KARGER, LETS GO.


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QUOTE (overly_critical_man @ Aug 29 2011, 05:23 PM) *
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zzzptm
post May 22 2011, 08:53 PM
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QUOTE (dizzyizzy @ May 22 2011, 01:48 PM) *
Fred Karger's entire reason for running is to oppose mormons. His debate against Mitt Romney is what I'm looking forward to.

Should be full of fun and sport, like watching a Nazi and a Commie mix it up.

FUN FACT: Huntsman and Romney are distant cousins.

ALSO FUN FACT: Varsity Boy hates America.


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dizzyizzy
post May 22 2011, 09:00 PM
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Too bad Huckabee's not running. smurf primaries, let's have a rock-off.
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dizzyizzy
post May 22 2011, 10:22 PM
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QUOTE (debator @ May 22 2011, 06:08 PM) *
QUOTE (zzzptm @ May 22 2011, 01:53 PM) *
QUOTE (dizzyizzy @ May 22 2011, 01:48 PM) *
Fred Karger's entire reason for running is to oppose mormons. His debate against Mitt Romney is what I'm looking forward to.

Should be full of fun and sport, like watching a Nazi and a Commie mix it up.

who's who in this scenario?

and to clarify izzy, he's not running in opposition to mormons as mormons, he's running in opposition to the people who are running that are mormons (namely romney, i don't really see anything about him calling out huntsman)

He's running in opposition of the Church of the Latter-Day Saint's support of prop 8 and other anti-gay bills, and using romney as a figurehead for his fight.
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