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> Nationals Change?
Guest_BearMan_*
post Sep 30 2012, 01:09 AM
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Not sure if somebody has already brought this up, but apparently USAD is now allowing the top 2 teams from each state to go to Nationals, up to 50 teams total. What do you guys think of this? ohmy.gif
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Guest_JackLosiStrader_*
post Sep 30 2012, 01:15 AM
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One year too late...
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Guest_the_crazy_honors_*
post Sep 30 2012, 02:56 AM
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This is huge. Source please?
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acadecker
post Sep 30 2012, 04:32 AM
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I can confirm that. That is what the Arizona State Director of ACADEC said at the annual Coaches' Clinic (in Arizona) three weeks ago.
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Guest_Gurkha_*
post Sep 30 2012, 11:35 PM
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I did hear this but not the 'up to 50 teams' part. Does that mean its not 2 for every state? Top 30 or how ever many states participate then next top scores?

I like it initially cuz one state may have 2 teams that battle and improve thier internal battle for Nats. The problem as Gear has mentioned to me is th emedals and awards - it all gets thinned out and less attractive for individuals.

I was ok with only 1 team per state I just didnt like that Texas has separate State Competitions for Small, Medium, and Large schools. This is compounded by the fact that Texas school size determination is not inline with Nats. The subjective scores are the wory when considering who makes Nats.
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Oct 1 2012, 04:13 AM
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If this is true, I am not happy. The big excitement about winning state is that you get to go to nationals. It wouldn't have been nearly as much fun/anticipation if the second-place team got to go too.
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Guest_swaswa_*
post Oct 1 2012, 04:46 AM
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I heard that the second place team competes in a different competition... something like a consolation round. Is this true?
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The Evil Dr. Cal...
post Oct 1 2012, 04:56 AM
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Yeah, the additional teams compete in 'Division Four.' We are not sure what that means yet.
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Guest_Crow_*
post Oct 1 2012, 04:57 AM
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QUOTE (BearMan @ Sep 29 2012, 06:09 PM) *
Not sure if somebody has already brought this up, but apparently USAD is now allowing the top 2 teams from each state to go to Nationals, up to 50 teams total. What do you guys think of this? ohmy.gif

I get a fair amount of use out of this image, but...

I think I see this causing rather than solving problems, but a mega battle royale does sound kind of interesting from a spectator perspective. Having two California schools in particular seems like it might monkey up the nationals scene. Plus, if you're from a wildly-competitive state, and you have to face your nemesis yet again at Nationals, it'll be like battling Team Rocket over and over. (Wait, did I seriously just write that?)

[Internal debate over current Thunderdome-style elimination system versus ridiculous craziness of new system]

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Guest_Stealer of Souls_*
post Oct 1 2012, 06:28 PM
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Ooh, if we'd have had this in 2004 I would have loved to seen how everything played out since we cut El Camino's lead of 1800 at regionals down to below 500 for states. Another six weeks of prep for nationals and who knows... popcorn.gif
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Guest_AJohn_*
post Oct 1 2012, 06:35 PM
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A few more schools will receive some reward for the work they put in.
If nothing else, that's something good that comes of this. I think it's a good idea.
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Guest_the_crazy_honors_*
post Oct 1 2012, 07:34 PM
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QUOTE (The Evil Dr. Calculus @ Sep 30 2012, 11:56 PM) *
Yeah, the additional teams compete in 'Division Four.' We are not sure what that means yet.

Weird! That implies that Texas' second-place school (47k at State) is below the D3 schools, most of whom scored in the 30ks at Nationals. How are Divisions 1-3 determined, anyway?
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Abuelo
post Oct 1 2012, 09:49 PM
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QUOTE (the_crazy_honors @ Oct 1 2012, 08:34 PM) *
QUOTE (The Evil Dr. Calculus @ Sep 30 2012, 11:56 PM) *
Yeah, the additional teams compete in 'Division Four.' We are not sure what that means yet.

Weird! That implies that Texas' second-place school (47k at State) is below the D3 schools, most of whom scored in the 30ks at Nationals. How are Divisions 1-3 determined, anyway?



The way that our State Director (he is very good) explained it to the CA regional coordinators last month, there will be 50 teams at Nationals; all the State Champs plus how ever many invited teams it takes to equal 50. Each State will have the opportunity to recommend one additional team, so no more than two from any State. ALL TEAMS will be placed in three divisions according to their enrollment as has been the case for many years. No D4 as far as I understand it.

cool.gif
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Guest_the_crazy_honors_*
post Oct 1 2012, 11:34 PM
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QUOTE (Abuelo @ Oct 1 2012, 04:49 PM) *
QUOTE (the_crazy_honors @ Oct 1 2012, 08:34 PM) *
QUOTE (The Evil Dr. Calculus @ Sep 30 2012, 11:56 PM) *
Yeah, the additional teams compete in 'Division Four.' We are not sure what that means yet.

Weird! That implies that Texas' second-place school (47k at State) is below the D3 schools, most of whom scored in the 30ks at Nationals. How are Divisions 1-3 determined, anyway?



The way that our State Director (he is very good) explained it to the CA regional coordinators last month, there will be 50 teams at Nationals; all the State Champs plus how ever many invited teams it takes to equal 50. Each State will have the opportunity to recommend one additional team, so no more than two from any State. ALL TEAMS will be placed in three divisions according to their enrollment as has been the case for many years. No D4 as far as I understand it.

cool.gif

Thanks, Abuelo! That sounds remarkably like the way Texas (and probably other states I know nothing about) advances large school teams to State, with the 12 region winners and then the following 28 top schools. I'd be okay with that system.
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Guest_Stealer of Souls_*
post Oct 1 2012, 11:38 PM
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I like to think this is a good first step in the direction of inviting the best overall teams, but there will be complaints when schools get left out. It appears there were 32 teams last year that competed which would make for 18 invited teams. The team/state coming in 18th scored 37.7K. Lots of 40+K teams will be left howling. Like I said, a good first step. It also would mean that the top 2 from California (likely to be large school) would go to nationals so team number 3 gets to do enationals?
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Guest_the_crazy_honors_*
post Oct 1 2012, 11:43 PM
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QUOTE (Stealer of Souls @ Oct 1 2012, 06:38 PM) *
I like to think this is a good first step in the direction of inviting the best overall teams, but there will be complaints when schools get left out. It appears there were 32 teams last year that competed which would make for 18 invited teams. The team/state coming in 18th scored 37.7K. Lots of 40+K teams will be left howling. Like I said, a good first step. It also would mean that the top 2 from California (likely to be large school) would go to nationals so team number 3 gets to do enationals?

I'm not following your logic here. It seems like the 18 invited teams would go something like random LAUSD school with a 48k at State, random Texas school with a 46k at State, random Arizona school with a 45k at State, all the way down to random semi-decent lolstate school with a 31k at State.

QUOTE (debator @ Oct 1 2012, 6:39 PM) *
WHAT.

Also this, but I do like the idea. In theory. Lots of good ideas don't work out in practice. Like communism. The question is whether USAD is as corrupt as Stalin.

This post has been edited by the_crazy_honors: Oct 1 2012, 11:45 PM
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Guest_Widget!_*
post Oct 2 2012, 12:20 AM
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This assumes that the state programs are going to be encouraged to recommend their second-place team. That may not be the case, though, as the last time they were sending two teams to nationals, the decision made in AZ was to take the highest-scoring small school. (Apart from University, that is. (Arizona used to have a University HS in Decathlon. They worked pretty much the same as University High in Fresno.))
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Guest_Crow_*
post Oct 2 2012, 03:20 AM
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QUOTE (the_crazy_honors @ Oct 1 2012, 04:43 PM) *
The question is whether USAD is as corrupt as Stalin.

Side note: I really like this sentence.

To Widget!'s point, yeah, if the state programs are nominating who goes, there could be issues. If there aren't any official guidelines, wackiness will probably rear its head almost immediately.

This post has been edited by Crow: Oct 2 2012, 05:42 AM
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Guest_Widget!_*
post Oct 2 2012, 05:07 AM
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Man, wait'll you get to Brezhnev...if you think Stalin was corrupt, just you wait.
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Oct 2 2012, 05:19 AM
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QUOTE (the_crazy_honors @ Oct 1 2012, 03:34 PM) *
Thanks, Abuelo! That sounds remarkably like the way Texas (and probably other states I know nothing about) advances large school teams to State, with the 12 region winners and then the following 28 top schools. I'd be okay with that system.

Also similar to California, which takes the winner of every county plus a certain number of "invited teams" - but the counties don't get to choose who the invited teams are, it's just the highest-scoring ones.
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