IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

6 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> State Texas, Poll, Scores, Stuff
Poll
Who will come in first place?
Dulles [ 10 ] ** [55.56%]
Lubbock [ 6 ] ** [33.33%]
Highland Park [ 2 ] ** [11.11%]
Friendswood [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
James E. Taylor [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Seven Lakes [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Plano East [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
J.J. Pearce [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Klein [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Coppell [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
J. Frank Dobie [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Other [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Who will come in second?
Dulles [ 6 ] ** [33.33%]
Lubbock [ 6 ] ** [33.33%]
Highland Park [ 4 ] ** [22.22%]
Friendswood [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
James E. Taylor [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Seven Lakes [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Plano East [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
J.J. Pearce [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Klein [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Coppell [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
J. Frank Dobie [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Other [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Who will come in third?
Dulles [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Lubbock [ 5 ] ** [27.78%]
Highland Park [ 9 ] ** [50.00%]
Friendswood [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
James E. Taylor [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Seven Lakes [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Plano East [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
J.J. Pearce [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Klein [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Coppell [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
J. Frank Dobie [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Other [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Who will come in fourth?
Dulles [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Lubbock [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Highland Park [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Friendswood [ 9 ] ** [50.00%]
James E. Taylor [ 2 ] ** [11.11%]
Seven Lakes [ 2 ] ** [11.11%]
Plano East [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
J.J. Pearce [ 2 ] ** [11.11%]
Klein [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Coppell [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
J. Frank Dobie [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Other [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Who will come in fifth?
Dulles [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Lubbock [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Highland Park [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Friendswood [ 6 ] ** [33.33%]
James E. Taylor [ 4 ] ** [22.22%]
Seven Lakes [ 3 ] ** [16.67%]
Plano East [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
J.J. Pearce [ 2 ] ** [11.11%]
Klein [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Coppell [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
J. Frank Dobie [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Other [ 2 ] ** [11.11%]
What will the highest team score be?
52,000+ [ 9 ] ** [50.00%]
51,500-51,999 [ 7 ] ** [38.89%]
51,000-51,499 [ 2 ] ** [11.11%]
50,500-50,999 [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
50,000-50,499 [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Below 50,000 [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Who will be the highest scoring honors?
Sophie Cope - J.J. Pearce [ 6 ] ** [33.33%]
Michael Xie - Highland Park [ 5 ] ** [27.78%]
Achutha Srinivasan - James E. Taylor [ 3 ] ** [16.67%]
Annie Jain - Plano East [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Karen Chen - Plano Senior [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Logan Baker - Klein [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Selena Sheng - Lubbock [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Sophie Yangyi - Dulles [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Nick Watson - Monterey [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Vincent Lin - Coppell [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Other [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Who will be the highest scoring scholastic?
Samuel Steinman-Friedman - Dulles [ 12 ] ** [66.67%]
Jake Watts - Lubbock [ 4 ] ** [22.22%]
Trevor Schillaci - Highland Park [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Matthew Forbes - Highland Park [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Jasmyne Rodriguez - Highland Park [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Daniel Melson - J.J. Pearce [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Other [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Who will be the highest scoring varsity?
Leighton Nylander - Dulles [ 10 ] ** [55.56%]
Hanor Smith - Rockwall-Heath [ 4 ] ** [22.22%]
Esteban Romero - Lubbock [ 3 ] ** [16.67%]
Jacob Murphy - Montgomery [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Cooper Harrison - J.J. Pearce [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Other [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
What will be the highest individual score?
9,600+ [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
9,500-9,599 [ 5 ] ** [27.78%]
9,400-9,499 [ 8 ] ** [44.44%]
9,300-9,399 [ 2 ] ** [11.11%]
9,200-9,299 [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
9,100-9,199 [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
9,000-9,099 [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Below 9,000 [ 1 ] ** [5.56%]
Total Votes: 18
Guests cannot vote 
Guest_hub city_*
post Feb 25 2018, 06:18 PM
Post #21





Guests






[quote name='madcap' post='96433' date='Feb 25 2018, 01:03 PM']A coach told me there were problems in all three subjectives:

1) Only one Speech judge per student for all of Medium/Small, which violates the coaches handbook (I don't know if that is binding)
2) Only one Interview judge per student for all of Medium/Small (see above)
3) One of the 10 Essay judges gave everybody 920-980 and it seems like this judge did not read the Essays, but just gave everybody 920-980. It is not clear how TAD split up essays among the 10 judges.

Edit: Somebody else just told me there were two Speech judges for all of Medium/Small


All three of these points need to be addressed, but Lubbock High has nothing to do with poorly run subjectives. Like all the rest of the medium and small schools, they competed with what the state organizers put in front of them.

Isn’t Frisco hosting nationals as well?

This post has been edited by hub city: Feb 25 2018, 06:23 PM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
madcap
post Feb 25 2018, 06:21 PM
Post #22


Advanced Member
***

Group: Nazgul
Posts: 1,519
Joined: 25-March 18
Member No.: 16



QUOTE (hub city @ Feb 25 2018, 01:18 PM) *
QUOTE (madcap @ Feb 25 2018, 01:03 PM) *
A coach told me there were problems in all three subjectives:

1) Only one Speech judge per student for all of Medium/Small, which violates the coaches handbook (I don't know if that is binding)
2) Only one Interview judge per student for all of Medium/Small (see above)
3) One of the 10 Essay judges gave everybody 920-980 and it seems like this judge did not read the Essays, but just gave everybody 920-980. It is not clear how TAD split up essays among the 10 judges.

Edit: Somebody else just told me there were two Speech judges for all of Medium/Small


All three of these points need to be addressed, but Lubbock High has nothing to do with poorly run subjectives. Like all the rest of the medium and small schools, they competed with what the state organizers put in front of them.

Isnít Frisco hosting nationals as well?


I misunderstood the Speech problem. Speech was ok. Interview did have one judge. I deleted my inaccurate post and wrote an updated post with a copy of the inaccurate post in smaller text but that didn't stop the inaccurate from being quoted up there. My apologies.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
madcap
post Feb 25 2018, 06:24 PM
Post #23


Advanced Member
***

Group: Nazgul
Posts: 1,519
Joined: 25-March 18
Member No.: 16



Yes, Nationals is in Frisco.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_hub city_*
post Feb 25 2018, 06:25 PM
Post #24





Guests






Good to know speech was ok. But how do you have a state meet with only one interview judge per room?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TinDefacto
post Feb 25 2018, 06:27 PM
Post #25


Turtlemaster.
***

Group: Admin
Posts: 1,282
Joined: 23-March 18
Member No.: 21



This is all so crazy. Results haven't been this contested since last time Lubbock was declared the winner in 2002. I feel for all of the coaches and Decathletes caught in this mess of bad organization and a rogue essay judge.

QUOTE (hub city @ Feb 25 2018, 02:18 PM) *
QUOTE (madcap @ Feb 25 2018, 01:03 PM) *
A coach told me there were problems in all three subjectives:

1) Only one Speech judge per student for all of Medium/Small, which violates the coaches handbook (I don't know if that is binding)
2) Only one Interview judge per student for all of Medium/Small (see above)
3) One of the 10 Essay judges gave everybody 920-980 and it seems like this judge did not read the Essays, but just gave everybody 920-980. It is not clear how TAD split up essays among the 10 judges.

Edit: Somebody else just told me there were two Speech judges for all of Medium/Small

Isnít Frisco hosting nationals as well?

As a Friscan, I would like to briefly point out that it was actually Collin College running the meet, not Frisco ISD or anyone affiliated with them. Also, Nationals will be primarily the Texas State Director (who ran the Large San Antonio meet, not the Small/Medium Frisco one) and USAD themselves, so it should be run much better than this.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
madcap
post Feb 25 2018, 06:28 PM
Post #26


Advanced Member
***

Group: Nazgul
Posts: 1,519
Joined: 25-March 18
Member No.: 16



QUOTE (hub city @ Feb 25 2018, 01:25 PM) *
Good to know speech was ok. But how do you have a state meet with only one interview judge per room?


I wish we had better funding for education and Academic Decathlon so everybody didn't have to suffer the consequences of such limited resources like this.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_hub city_*
post Feb 25 2018, 06:32 PM
Post #27





Guests






QUOTE (TinDefacto @ Feb 25 2018, 01:27 PM) *
This is all so crazy. Results haven't been this contested since last time Lubbock was declared the winner in 2002. I feel for all of the coaches and Decathletes caught in this mess of bad organization and a rogue essay judge.

QUOTE (hub city @ Feb 25 2018, 02:18 PM) *
QUOTE (madcap @ Feb 25 2018, 01:03 PM) *
A coach told me there were problems in all three subjectives:

1) Only one Speech judge per student for all of Medium/Small, which violates the coaches handbook (I don't know if that is binding)
2) Only one Interview judge per student for all of Medium/Small (see above)
3) One of the 10 Essay judges gave everybody 920-980 and it seems like this judge did not read the Essays, but just gave everybody 920-980. It is not clear how TAD split up essays among the 10 judges.

Edit: Somebody else just told me there were two Speech judges for all of Medium/Small

Isnít Frisco hosting nationals as well?

As a Friscan, I would like to briefly point out that it was actually Collin College running the meet, not Frisco ISD or anyone affiliated with them. Also, Nationals will be primarily the Texas State Director (who ran the Large San Antonio meet, not the Small/Medium Frisco one) and USAD themselves, so it should be run much better than this.


Also good to know that Frisco ISD didnít run this. Have had nothing but great experiences attending the octathlon meet there every year. Great place and people. Collin College needs to get it figured out.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
TinDefacto
post Feb 25 2018, 06:40 PM
Post #28


Turtlemaster.
***

Group: Admin
Posts: 1,282
Joined: 23-March 18
Member No.: 21



Gleaned from Twitter: Lebanon Trail won Small Schools, and Summit took third in Medium.

I also heard that five teams broke 50k this weekend. Seven Lakes and Friendswood's first times??
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lab
post Feb 25 2018, 06:48 PM
Post #29


Advanced Member
***

Group: Coach Class
Posts: 62
Joined: 25-March 18
Member No.: 721,907



Rockwall got 12 with 47,372.6. A lot of competitive teams out there this year.


--------------------
Lucas Beville
Rockwall, TX
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_txthomas_*
post Feb 25 2018, 10:18 PM
Post #30





Guests






Here we go again. Why does this always happen when Lubbock is the apparent winner? Oh the fiasco of Wichita Falls so many years ago.

QUOTE (TinDefacto @ Feb 25 2018, 12:27 PM) *
This is all so crazy. Results haven't been this contested since last time Lubbock was declared the winner in 2002. I feel for all of the coaches and Decathletes caught in this mess of bad organization and a rogue essay judge.

QUOTE (hub city @ Feb 25 2018, 02:18 PM) *
QUOTE (madcap @ Feb 25 2018, 01:03 PM) *
A coach told me there were problems in all three subjectives:

1) Only one Speech judge per student for all of Medium/Small, which violates the coaches handbook (I don't know if that is binding)
2) Only one Interview judge per student for all of Medium/Small (see above)
3) One of the 10 Essay judges gave everybody 920-980 and it seems like this judge did not read the Essays, but just gave everybody 920-980. It is not clear how TAD split up essays among the 10 judges.

Edit: Somebody else just told me there were two Speech judges for all of Medium/Small

Isnít Frisco hosting nationals as well?

As a Friscan, I would like to briefly point out that it was actually Collin College running the meet, not Frisco ISD or anyone affiliated with them. Also, Nationals will be primarily the Texas State Director (who ran the Large San Antonio meet, not the Small/Medium Frisco one) and USAD themselves, so it should be run much better than this.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_GJNHS_*
post Feb 26 2018, 02:33 AM
Post #31





Guests






QUOTE (txthomas @ Feb 25 2018, 04:18 PM) *
Here we go again. Why does this always happen when Lubbock is the apparent winner? Oh the fiasco of Wichita Falls so many years ago.

QUOTE (TinDefacto @ Feb 25 2018, 12:27 PM) *
This is all so crazy. Results haven't been this contested since last time Lubbock was declared the winner in 2002. I feel for all of the coaches and Decathletes caught in this mess of bad organization and a rogue essay judge.

QUOTE (hub city @ Feb 25 2018, 02:18 PM) *
QUOTE (madcap @ Feb 25 2018, 01:03 PM) *
A coach told me there were problems in all three subjectives:

1) Only one Speech judge per student for all of Medium/Small, which violates the coaches handbook (I don't know if that is binding)
2) Only one Interview judge per student for all of Medium/Small (see above)
3) One of the 10 Essay judges gave everybody 920-980 and it seems like this judge did not read the Essays, but just gave everybody 920-980. It is not clear how TAD split up essays among the 10 judges.

Edit: Somebody else just told me there were two Speech judges for all of Medium/Small

Isnít Frisco hosting nationals as well?

As a Friscan, I would like to briefly point out that it was actually Collin College running the meet, not Frisco ISD or anyone affiliated with them. Also, Nationals will be primarily the Texas State Director (who ran the Large San Antonio meet, not the Small/Medium Frisco one) and USAD themselves, so it should be run much better than this.


Hello, Roger. It is good to hear from you! I don't imagine that there are many of us who are still around that remember Wichita Falls in 2002, but I would think that it might be referenced quite a bit in the next several days. It is crazy that Lubbock is also involved in this controversy...and once again through no fault of their own.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
The Evil Dr. Cal...
post Feb 26 2018, 02:57 AM
Post #32


Advanced Member
***

Group: Admin
Posts: 1,549
Joined: 24-March 18
Member No.: 3



I hope that there will be no lawsuits this time.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_J Eberhard_*
post Feb 26 2018, 04:09 AM
Post #33





Guests






Before everyone goes into a 'fit' over the results... this is an OLD storyline. 2004 we even had ALL schools in San Antonio to avoid such controversy. I remember coaches meetings in the Fall to discuss eliminating subjectives to avoid such issues.

All I can say is... Large schools now have the "stable" meet in San Antonio that Mediums enjoyed for a long time. Mediums are now in the 2nd year of the traveling show. Large schools used to complain that moving around year to year was a disadvantage. Here we are of two years reversed and Medium winner goes to Nats in both of those years. Large schools have the "stable" meet and STILL complain about fairness?

Essay, more than any other event, has frustrated coaches. We all have "stories" of "great kids" who scored "5 on AP" but got a 300ish on Essay at Region or State. My first year coaching, the coach at San Antonio Holmes (Julianna) told me "get used to subjectives or quit coaching". Man, was she right!

So goes this year's state meet. It is a classic case of Academic Decathlon's "get used to it or quit". Lubbock won the right to go to Nats on the results of Essays graded by a common group of Essay graders. It's not as if Large and Medium had 'different' essay judges. So within the format used for Essay, Lubbock was 800 pts better than the next two teams. Get used to it or quit. smile.gif

This post has been edited by J Eberhard: Feb 26 2018, 04:10 AM
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lab
post Feb 26 2018, 04:29 AM
Post #34


Advanced Member
***

Group: Coach Class
Posts: 62
Joined: 25-March 18
Member No.: 721,907



QUOTE (J Eberhard @ Feb 25 2018, 10:09 PM) *
Before everyone goes into a 'fit' over the results... this is an OLD storyline. 2004 we even had ALL schools in San Antonio to avoid such controversy. I remember coaches meetings in the Fall to discuss eliminating subjectives to avoid such issues.

All I can say is... Large schools now have the "stable" meet in San Antonio that Mediums enjoyed for a long time. Mediums are now in the 2nd year of the traveling show. Large schools used to complain that moving around year to year was a disadvantage. Here we are of two years reversed and Medium winner goes to Nats in both of those years. Large schools have the "stable" meet and STILL complain about fairness?

Essay, more than any other event, has frustrated coaches. We all have "stories" of "great kids" who scored "5 on AP" but got a 300ish on Essay at Region or State. My first year coaching, the coach at San Antonio Holmes (Julianna) told me "get used to subjectives or quit coaching". Man, was she right!

So goes this year's state meet. It is a classic case of Academic Decathlon's "get used to it or quit". Lubbock won the right to go to Nats on the results of Essays graded by a common group of Essay graders. It's not as if Large and Medium had 'different' essay judges. So within the format used for Essay, Lubbock was 800 pts better than the next two teams. Get used to it or quit. smile.gif


First off, "get used to subjectives or quit coaching" is great advice and so true. I've only been apart of this program for 4 years now and it may be the best advice I've heard to date.

However I don't think the main issue here is the essay grading, no matter how stable it was or wasn't. I think the main issue is the fact there was only 1 interview judge in the small/medium rooms when it is required in the handbook that there be 2-3 judges. It definitely can give an unfair advantage in respect to scores when you have more judges. For example, we had a student score a 993.3 in interview this weekend (which is the 3rd highest possible with 3 judges so should be 3rd) but they were not recognized for 3rd because another student received a 995 because they only had 2 judges.

I just think its a shame that it has to come down to this because both teams are excellent and it's unfair to the students from both teams because they worked their tails off all year and deserve an accurate placement. It is also possible that if there were no issues, the results would be the same, but now sadly these students will never know.

This post has been edited by LAB: Feb 26 2018, 04:34 AM


--------------------
Lucas Beville
Rockwall, TX
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_J Eberhard_*
post Feb 26 2018, 04:45 AM
Post #35





Guests






QUOTE (LAB @ Feb 25 2018, 10:29 PM) *
QUOTE (J Eberhard @ Feb 25 2018, 10:09 PM) *
Before everyone goes into a 'fit' over the results... this is an OLD storyline. 2004 we even had ALL schools in San Antonio to avoid such controversy. I remember coaches meetings in the Fall to discuss eliminating subjectives to avoid such issues.

All I can say is... Large schools now have the "stable" meet in San Antonio that Mediums enjoyed for a long time. Mediums are now in the 2nd year of the traveling show. Large schools used to complain that moving around year to year was a disadvantage. Here we are of two years reversed and Medium winner goes to Nats in both of those years. Large schools have the "stable" meet and STILL complain about fairness?

Essay, more than any other event, has frustrated coaches. We all have "stories" of "great kids" who scored "5 on AP" but got a 300ish on Essay at Region or State. My first year coaching, the coach at San Antonio Holmes (Julianna) told me "get used to subjectives or quit coaching". Man, was she right!

So goes this year's state meet. It is a classic case of Academic Decathlon's "get used to it or quit". Lubbock won the right to go to Nats on the results of Essays graded by a common group of Essay graders. It's not as if Large and Medium had 'different' essay judges. So within the format used for Essay, Lubbock was 800 pts better than the next two teams. Get used to it or quit. smile.gif


First off, "get used to subjectives or quit coaching" is great advice and so true. I've only been apart of this program for 4 years now and it may be the best advice I've heard to date.

However I don't think the main issue here is the essay grading, no matter how stable it was or wasn't. I think the main issue is the fact there was only 1 interview judge in the small/medium rooms when it is required in the handbook that there be 2-3 judges. It definitely can give an unfair advantage in respect to scores when you have more judges. For example, we had a student score a 993.3 in interview this weekend (which is the 3rd highest possible with 3 judges so should be 3rd) but they were not recognized for 3rd because another student received a 995 because they only had 2 judges.

I just think its a shame that it has to come down to this because both teams are excellent and it's unfair to the students from both teams because they worked their tails off all year and deserve an accurate placement. It is also possible that if there were no issues, the results would be the same, but now sadly these students will never know.


Dulles Speech/Interview was higher than Lubbock Speech/Interview. It was the Essay that covered the gap in objectives. Speech/Interview was a 'push'. There were TEN events that could have swung the final results. In this case, Essay was the event with the most glaring impact.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lab
post Feb 26 2018, 04:51 AM
Post #36


Advanced Member
***

Group: Coach Class
Posts: 62
Joined: 25-March 18
Member No.: 721,907



QUOTE (J Eberhard @ Feb 25 2018, 10:45 PM) *
QUOTE (LAB @ Feb 25 2018, 10:29 PM) *
QUOTE (J Eberhard @ Feb 25 2018, 10:09 PM) *
Before everyone goes into a 'fit' over the results... this is an OLD storyline. 2004 we even had ALL schools in San Antonio to avoid such controversy. I remember coaches meetings in the Fall to discuss eliminating subjectives to avoid such issues.

All I can say is... Large schools now have the "stable" meet in San Antonio that Mediums enjoyed for a long time. Mediums are now in the 2nd year of the traveling show. Large schools used to complain that moving around year to year was a disadvantage. Here we are of two years reversed and Medium winner goes to Nats in both of those years. Large schools have the "stable" meet and STILL complain about fairness?

Essay, more than any other event, has frustrated coaches. We all have "stories" of "great kids" who scored "5 on AP" but got a 300ish on Essay at Region or State. My first year coaching, the coach at San Antonio Holmes (Julianna) told me "get used to subjectives or quit coaching". Man, was she right!

So goes this year's state meet. It is a classic case of Academic Decathlon's "get used to it or quit". Lubbock won the right to go to Nats on the results of Essays graded by a common group of Essay graders. It's not as if Large and Medium had 'different' essay judges. So within the format used for Essay, Lubbock was 800 pts better than the next two teams. Get used to it or quit. smile.gif


First off, "get used to subjectives or quit coaching" is great advice and so true. I've only been apart of this program for 4 years now and it may be the best advice I've heard to date.

However I don't think the main issue here is the essay grading, no matter how stable it was or wasn't. I think the main issue is the fact there was only 1 interview judge in the small/medium rooms when it is required in the handbook that there be 2-3 judges. It definitely can give an unfair advantage in respect to scores when you have more judges. For example, we had a student score a 993.3 in interview this weekend (which is the 3rd highest possible with 3 judges so should be 3rd) but they were not recognized for 3rd because another student received a 995 because they only had 2 judges.

I just think its a shame that it has to come down to this because both teams are excellent and it's unfair to the students from both teams because they worked their tails off all year and deserve an accurate placement. It is also possible that if there were no issues, the results would be the same, but now sadly these students will never know.


Dulles Speech/Interview was higher than Lubbock Speech/Interview. It was the Essay that covered the gap in objectives. Speech/Interview was a 'push'. There were TEN events that could have swung the final results. In this case, Essay was the event with the most glaring impact.


You're absolutely right. The biggest gap was the 914 point difference in essay scores. But all large/medium/small schools (i think) had the same essay graders so this shouldn't be a reason to appeal because they're subjectives and they are "subjectives" for a reason. But since the total scores were only 91.8 apart, the fact that one group didn't have interview scores that were averaged within a group of judges could easily have affected the outcomes. I don't think there would have been an appeal if one team won by 900 points. But since it is a double digit spread, there is a high possibility this could have been a huge deciding factor. Even though the team appealing was 268.3 ahead in interview.

This post has been edited by LAB: Feb 26 2018, 04:54 AM


--------------------
Lucas Beville
Rockwall, TX
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_J Eberhard_*
post Feb 26 2018, 05:04 AM
Post #37





Guests






QUOTE (LAB @ Feb 25 2018, 10:51 PM) *
QUOTE (J Eberhard @ Feb 25 2018, 10:45 PM) *
QUOTE (LAB @ Feb 25 2018, 10:29 PM) *
QUOTE (J Eberhard @ Feb 25 2018, 10:09 PM) *
Before everyone goes into a 'fit' over the results... this is an OLD storyline. 2004 we even had ALL schools in San Antonio to avoid such controversy. I remember coaches meetings in the Fall to discuss eliminating subjectives to avoid such issues.

All I can say is... Large schools now have the "stable" meet in San Antonio that Mediums enjoyed for a long time. Mediums are now in the 2nd year of the traveling show. Large schools used to complain that moving around year to year was a disadvantage. Here we are of two years reversed and Medium winner goes to Nats in both of those years. Large schools have the "stable" meet and STILL complain about fairness?

Essay, more than any other event, has frustrated coaches. We all have "stories" of "great kids" who scored "5 on AP" but got a 300ish on Essay at Region or State. My first year coaching, the coach at San Antonio Holmes (Julianna) told me "get used to subjectives or quit coaching". Man, was she right!

So goes this year's state meet. It is a classic case of Academic Decathlon's "get used to it or quit". Lubbock won the right to go to Nats on the results of Essays graded by a common group of Essay graders. It's not as if Large and Medium had 'different' essay judges. So within the format used for Essay, Lubbock was 800 pts better than the next two teams. Get used to it or quit. smile.gif


First off, "get used to subjectives or quit coaching" is great advice and so true. I've only been apart of this program for 4 years now and it may be the best advice I've heard to date.

However I don't think the main issue here is the essay grading, no matter how stable it was or wasn't. I think the main issue is the fact there was only 1 interview judge in the small/medium rooms when it is required in the handbook that there be 2-3 judges. It definitely can give an unfair advantage in respect to scores when you have more judges. For example, we had a student score a 993.3 in interview this weekend (which is the 3rd highest possible with 3 judges so should be 3rd) but they were not recognized for 3rd because another student received a 995 because they only had 2 judges.

I just think its a shame that it has to come down to this because both teams are excellent and it's unfair to the students from both teams because they worked their tails off all year and deserve an accurate placement. It is also possible that if there were no issues, the results would be the same, but now sadly these students will never know.


Dulles Speech/Interview was higher than Lubbock Speech/Interview. It was the Essay that covered the gap in objectives. Speech/Interview was a 'push'. There were TEN events that could have swung the final results. In this case, Essay was the event with the most glaring impact.


You're absolutely right. The biggest gap was the 914 point difference in essay scores. But all large/medium/small schools (i think) had the same essay graders so this shouldn't be a reason to appeal because they're subjectives and they are "subjectives" for a reason. But since the total scores were only 91.8 apart, the fact that one group didn't have interview scores that were averaged within a group of judges could easily have affected the outcomes. I don't think there would have been an appeal if one team won by 900 points. But since it is a double digit spread, there is a high possibility this could have been a huge deciding factor. Even though the team appealing was 268.3 ahead in interview.


I think the fact that HP (with the same judges as Lubbock) had similar gaps with Lubbock as Dulles lends credence to Lubbock simply outperforming both schools in subjectives. As for me, I'm from the same school of thought as most coaches: win the objectives (70% of the score)... yet once every 10 years or so the subjectives are the deciding factor. This was one of them. It's not like Lubbock was 2k behind in objectives. If we're going to have two separate meets, we simply will have to accept these types of results. 9 out of 10 times the team with the higher objectives ends up with the higher total. I'd play those odds every year. What we're saying otherwise is that when the 1 out of 10 happens we should throw out the 'proven' strategy for winning. Dulles had the higher objectives... just not high enough. Look at the objective gaps in previous years.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Lab
post Feb 26 2018, 05:15 AM
Post #38


Advanced Member
***

Group: Coach Class
Posts: 62
Joined: 25-March 18
Member No.: 721,907



QUOTE (J Eberhard @ Feb 25 2018, 11:04 PM) *
QUOTE (LAB @ Feb 25 2018, 10:51 PM) *
QUOTE (J Eberhard @ Feb 25 2018, 10:45 PM) *
QUOTE (LAB @ Feb 25 2018, 10:29 PM) *


First off, "get used to subjectives or quit coaching" is great advice and so true. I've only been apart of this program for 4 years now and it may be the best advice I've heard to date.

However I don't think the main issue here is the essay grading, no matter how stable it was or wasn't. I think the main issue is the fact there was only 1 interview judge in the small/medium rooms when it is required in the handbook that there be 2-3 judges. It definitely can give an unfair advantage in respect to scores when you have more judges. For example, we had a student score a 993.3 in interview this weekend (which is the 3rd highest possible with 3 judges so should be 3rd) but they were not recognized for 3rd because another student received a 995 because they only had 2 judges.

I just think its a shame that it has to come down to this because both teams are excellent and it's unfair to the students from both teams because they worked their tails off all year and deserve an accurate placement. It is also possible that if there were no issues, the results would be the same, but now sadly these students will never know.


Dulles Speech/Interview was higher than Lubbock Speech/Interview. It was the Essay that covered the gap in objectives. Speech/Interview was a 'push'. There were TEN events that could have swung the final results. In this case, Essay was the event with the most glaring impact.


You're absolutely right. The biggest gap was the 914 point difference in essay scores. But all large/medium/small schools (i think) had the same essay graders so this shouldn't be a reason to appeal because they're subjectives and they are "subjectives" for a reason. But since the total scores were only 91.8 apart, the fact that one group didn't have interview scores that were averaged within a group of judges could easily have affected the outcomes. I don't think there would have been an appeal if one team won by 900 points. But since it is a double digit spread, there is a high possibility this could have been a huge deciding factor. Even though the team appealing was 268.3 ahead in interview.


I think the fact that HP (with the same judges as Lubbock) had similar gaps with Lubbock as Dulles lends credence to Lubbock simply outperforming both schools in subjectives. As for me, I'm from the same school of thought as most coaches: win the objectives (70% of the score)... yet once every 10 years or so the subjectives are the deciding factor. This was one of them. It's not like Lubbock was 2k behind in objectives. If we're going to have two separate meets, we simply will have to accept these types of results. 9 out of 10 times the team with the higher objectives ends up with the higher total. I'd play those odds every year. What we're saying otherwise is that when the 1 out of 10 happens we should throw out the 'proven' strategy for winning. Dulles had the higher objectives... just not high enough. Look at the objective gaps in previous years.


Again it is just a shame that there even has to be an appeal. But the competition manual states that there needs to be 2-3 judges. 1 judge in a room can really help (or hurt) teams and that's why they require you to have 2-3 judges. The overall result shouldn't be scrutinized when done correctly because thats the whole point of subjectives and being judged. The point I am making is that it seems unfair to have only 1 judge in a room (especially when the rules state there needs to be 2-3). If Lubbock would have been down by 91, I wouldn't blame them for appealing because they only had 1 judge and it easily could have been better with their scores being averaged with more judges. Just like I don't blame Dulles for appealing for the being on the opposite side of that argument.

This post has been edited by LAB: Feb 26 2018, 05:16 AM


--------------------
Lucas Beville
Rockwall, TX
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_J Eberhard_*
post Feb 26 2018, 05:16 AM
Post #39





Guests






QUOTE (LAB @ Feb 25 2018, 10:29 PM) *
QUOTE (J Eberhard @ Feb 25 2018, 10:09 PM) *
Before everyone goes into a 'fit' over the results... this is an OLD storyline. 2004 we even had ALL schools in San Antonio to avoid such controversy. I remember coaches meetings in the Fall to discuss eliminating subjectives to avoid such issues.

All I can say is... Large schools now have the "stable" meet in San Antonio that Mediums enjoyed for a long time. Mediums are now in the 2nd year of the traveling show. Large schools used to complain that moving around year to year was a disadvantage. Here we are of two years reversed and Medium winner goes to Nats in both of those years. Large schools have the "stable" meet and STILL complain about fairness?

Essay, more than any other event, has frustrated coaches. We all have "stories" of "great kids" who scored "5 on AP" but got a 300ish on Essay at Region or State. My first year coaching, the coach at San Antonio Holmes (Julianna) told me "get used to subjectives or quit coaching". Man, was she right!

So goes this year's state meet. It is a classic case of Academic Decathlon's "get used to it or quit". Lubbock won the right to go to Nats on the results of Essays graded by a common group of Essay graders. It's not as if Large and Medium had 'different' essay judges. So within the format used for Essay, Lubbock was 800 pts better than the next two teams. Get used to it or quit. smile.gif


First off, "get used to subjectives or quit coaching" is great advice and so true. I've only been apart of this program for 4 years now and it may be the best advice I've heard to date.

However I don't think the main issue here is the essay grading, no matter how stable it was or wasn't. I think the main issue is the fact there was only 1 interview judge in the small/medium rooms when it is required in the handbook that there be 2-3 judges. It definitely can give an unfair advantage in respect to scores when you have more judges. For example, we had a student score a 993.3 in interview this weekend (which is the 3rd highest possible with 3 judges so should be 3rd) but they were not recognized for 3rd because another student received a 995 because they only had 2 judges.

I just think its a shame that it has to come down to this because both teams are excellent and it's unfair to the students from both teams because they worked their tails off all year and deserve an accurate placement. It is also possible that if there were no issues, the results would be the same, but now sadly these students will never know.


This assumes that the 3rd judge would NOT have given a high score that scores even higher than 995. In a perfect world all judges show up. This strikes at the core issues of hosting an AcaDec meet. Objectives are a piece of cake.... subjectives are a nightmare from scheduling to recruiting judges to hoping they show up to 'when they show up we hope they listen to training' to sitting in the rooms not watching their phones.... and on and on and on.

Challenging the results of a competition over subjectives at two different locations in as significant as your blinker in a turn only lane. We have fought this battle for years. The only solution is 2004 "all schools at the same location". Until we get a sponsor who will help with this logistically, we will have to accept the one out of ten times that subjectives determine the results.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Guest_Distracted Varsity_*
post Feb 26 2018, 05:17 AM
Post #40





Guests






Regardless of the outcome of this appeal, just about everyone can agree that subjectives are bizarre. I'm not in any position to question the reasoning or competence of these judges, as I have essentially zero information on anything relevant to this matter. What seems apparent, however, is that some degree of mismanagement occurred. No matter the outcome, this year's subjective shenanigans have encouraged meaningful discussion, which is typically a good thing. I wish the best of luck to whoever represents us at Nationals, as I can't honestly say that either of them hasn't earned it.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

6 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th October 2018 - 08:23 AM