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> Subjectives, the elephant in the room
Guest_Gear_*
post Feb 28 2011, 03:54 AM
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I'd be interested to know from the large schools what their objective scores were. Anyone care to share?

Rockwall scored 34,357.1 objectively from their six "counters".

Please note that I am not attempting to stir the pot. Subjectives are part of the competition and there is no way to eliminate subjectivity even by having all schools at one meet. I am happy with our result, ranking, etc. (no sour grapes to speak of); I'm merely curious.

This post has been edited by Gear: Feb 28 2011, 03:58 AM
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The Evil Dr. Cal...
post Feb 28 2011, 04:02 AM
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HOLY CRAP.

If we get to 32,000, I will be amazed.
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Guest_Tad Walters_*
post Feb 28 2011, 04:32 AM
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QUOTE (Gear @ Feb 27 2011, 09:54 PM) *
I'd be interested to know from the large schools what their objective scores were. Anyone care to share?

Rockwall scored 34,357.1 objectively from their six "counters".

Please note that I am not attempting to stir the pot. Subjectives are part of the competition and there is no way to eliminate subjectivity even by having all schools at one meet. I am happy with our result, ranking, etc. (no sour grapes to speak of); I'm merely curious.



I thought H said y'all beat us objectively, but the spreadsheet I have says Dobie was at 34692.6. Also, great scores you had Gear. Congratulations!
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Guest_JSC_*
post Feb 28 2011, 05:43 AM
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Looks like the MS subjectives went like this:

15792 Rockwall
15735 Highland Park
15603 Friendswood
15469 Centennial
15322 New Caney
15208 Alice
14969 Summit
14777 Montgomery
14737 Champion
14709 Foster
14664 Liberty
14555 Wakeland
14534 J J Pearce
14443 Aledo
14417 The Colony
14295 Alamo Heights
14282 Wylie
14266 El Paso
14005 Newman Smith
13926 Frisco
13750 Creekview
13104 Flour Bluff
13039 Heath
12837 Luther Burbank
12798 Timber Creek

Kudos to Rockwall for notching the top spot. Will post LS subjective totals when we get the spreadsheet.
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zzzptm
post Feb 28 2011, 01:45 PM
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Berkner subjectives went up 1000 from Region X to State. It really was improvement, not just the Region X effect wearing off. We got close to 15K.


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Guest_Higginbotham_*
post Feb 28 2011, 02:43 PM
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Objectives: 34,692.9

Subjectives: 15,776.8


We went down 40 points in subjectives from Regionals to State. Mostly due to a couple of essay scores that were really low. Tad's 1000 in essay, 993.3 in both Speech and Interview didn't count towards our team total. Seven Lakes' subjectives are the highest I have ever heard of. I'll let Irish post them if he wants.

I was under the impression that Rockwall beat us in objectives, which would have been extremely ironic given the discussions on here about the issue of having the best two teams in the state at two different competitions. I'm very glad to hear that wasn't the case. I hope to see this resolved someday. I talked to DemiDec Dan about this and he thought it might be good to keep the separate Medium/Large meets but to move any school that has a shot of winning state to the large meet. It would have been great to go head to head against Rockwall.

This post has been edited by Higginbotham: Feb 28 2011, 02:53 PM
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Guest_spartandecathlon_*
post Feb 28 2011, 03:04 PM
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32,601: objective
16,261: subjective

That's not a fluke either, we were just that good in subjectives. Should have been higher, Iana got a 716 in essay which is wrong, she is a much stronger writer than that. She got an 825 in our region. In, what I would argue, is probably the toughest essay region in the state. Our essay scores went up 500 points, with her 100 point drop. She should have been 900+.

Great job Dobie and Rockwall - congrats to you both. Good luck as you both move on.

9181.6: Xu (honors 1st - back-to-back individual champ, and he is just a junior)
8917.1: Bernhard (scholastic - 1st)
8577.4: Ivanova (scholastic - 2nd)

If you are curious about our top 5 finishers this year.

See you next year. popcorn.gif
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Guest_Gear_*
post Feb 28 2011, 04:01 PM
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We have no issue with the way the subjectives are handled now. Even if schools are at the same meet there's no guarantee that the counters have the same essay graders, speech judges, or interview judges; and there's still some trouble with consistency from room to room at the same meet. As I stated earlier, there are no sour grapes; I was just curious. Congratulations to Dobie.
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The Evil Dr. Cal...
post Feb 28 2011, 04:07 PM
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So Dobie and Rockwall had almost precisely the same subjective scores. It doesn't seem as though there's any sort of issue this time. Thank goodness.

Great job, regardless. I think this is the strongest Texas has been in years.
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Guest_mrrrg_*
post Feb 28 2011, 04:09 PM
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QUOTE (Gear @ Feb 28 2011, 05:01 PM) *
We have no issue with the way the subjectives are handled now. Even if schools are at the same meet there's no guarantee that the counters have the same essay graders, speech judges, or interview judges; and there's still some trouble with consistency from room to room at the same meet. As I stated earlier, there are no sour grapes; I was just curious. Congratulations to Dobie.

Moot court time: at interview two judges give inerviewee a 10 on appearance. Judge three gives a 5. Result no medal. That's how subjectives work. Next year we all wear tuxedos.
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zzzptm
post Feb 28 2011, 09:32 PM
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I think this does speak to moving to a tiered system in Texas. Although the CA system has its flaws, I think it's best for determining an overall champion, regardless of size. And no, I don't see any coach knowing enough about future cutoffs to try to strategically tank scores to get into a lower bracket to clean up on medals.


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Guest_Tad Walters_*
post Feb 28 2011, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (Higginbotham @ Feb 28 2011, 08:43 AM) *
Objectives: 34,692.9

Tad's 1000 in essay, 993.3 in both Speech and Interview didn't count towards our team total.

wallbash.gif wallbash.gif wallbash.gif
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Guest_T-Scott_*
post Feb 28 2011, 10:21 PM
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QUOTE (Tad Walters @ Feb 28 2011, 03:48 PM) *
QUOTE (Higginbotham @ Feb 28 2011, 08:43 AM) *
Objectives: 34,692.9

Tad's 1000 in essay, 993.3 in both Speech and Interview didn't count towards our team total.

wallbash.gif wallbash.gif wallbash.gif



jaw-dropping.gif that is just a little bit ridiculous. Is that the subjective record?
Congratulations, I am very impressed.
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Guest_JSC_*
post Feb 28 2011, 10:22 PM
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Large school:

16261 Seven Lakes
16207 Taylor
15788 Marcus
15778 Dobie
15774 Clements
15744 EP Coronado
15728 Klein
15690 O'Connor
15578 CB
15458 Pearland
15403 Garland
15387 King
15376 Plano
15333 Sachse
15324 Coppell
15228 South Grand Prairie
15151 Rowlett
15138 Plano East
15102 Lubbock
15100 Macarthur
15088 Nimitz
14979 Cinco Ranch
14979 Elkins
14927 Arlington
14922 Berkner
14919 Deer Park
14869 Lubbock Coronado
14525 Franklin
14455 Holmes
14367 Warren
14321 Monterey
14131 Carroll
14077 Horn
13980 Allen
13937 Duncanville
13891 Stevens
13639 Keller
13413 Lamar
12786 Pasadena
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Guest_Gurkha_*
post Feb 28 2011, 10:45 PM
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Coppells Interview was a little better than I expected - our Speeches were absolutley great and the scores reflect that but I would say our essays were much further down than we should have recieved. We have great essay writers including Ivy League bound kids that know writing better than many English teachers - yet they received 735 and 680's. So its a wash I would say - higher on Interviews, right on with Speeches, lower on essays.

El paso was great by the way - starting from a great airport, great van rental, great highway, great hotel, great service at restaurants, and cool people. And they HAVE A MOUNTAIN!!!

This post has been edited by Gurkha: Feb 28 2011, 10:46 PM
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Guest_nil_*
post Feb 28 2011, 10:51 PM
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Guest_Tad Walters_*
post Feb 28 2011, 11:02 PM
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QUOTE (T-Scott @ Feb 28 2011, 04:21 PM) *
QUOTE (Tad Walters @ Feb 28 2011, 03:48 PM) *
QUOTE (Higginbotham @ Feb 28 2011, 08:43 AM) *
Objectives: 34,692.9

Tad's 1000 in essay, 993.3 in both Speech and Interview didn't count towards our team total.

wallbash.gif wallbash.gif wallbash.gif



jaw-dropping.gif that is just a little bit ridiculous. Is that the subjective record?
Congratulations, I am very impressed.


I doubt it is. I'm sure some guy with actual charisma came in and got closer to 3000. But thanks for the compliment.

QUOTE (Gurkha @ Feb 28 2011, 04:45 PM) *
Coppells Interview was a little better than I expected - our Speeches were absolutley great and the scores reflect that but I would say our essays were much further down than we should have recieved. We have great essay writers including Ivy League bound kids that know writing better than many English teachers - yet they received 735 and 680's. So its a wash I would say - higher on Interviews, right on with Speeches, lower on essays.

El paso was great by the way - starting from a great airport, great van rental, great highway, great hotel, great service at restaurants, and cool people. And they HAVE A MOUNTAIN!!!

And wind. Can't forget the wind.
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Guest_magicblueman_*
post Feb 28 2011, 11:06 PM
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QUOTE (Tad Walters @ Feb 28 2011, 05:02 PM) *
QUOTE (Gurkha @ Feb 28 2011, 04:45 PM) *
El paso was great by the way - starting from a great airport, great van rental, great highway, great hotel, great service at restaurants, and cool people. And they HAVE A MOUNTAIN!!!

And wind. Can't forget the wind.


And the dust. Dusty old dust.
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zzzptm
post Feb 28 2011, 11:08 PM
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/me squints and takes notes


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"The world could perish if people only worked on things that were easy to handle." -- Vladimir Savchenko
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Guest_Gear_*
post Feb 28 2011, 11:11 PM
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QUOTE (nil @ Feb 28 2011, 04:51 PM) *

It'd be interesting to see how our interview scores in round 2 compared to the large schools in our region, and then compare their change at round 3 to ours.
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