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> Occupy Wall Street? Good or Bad?
Guest_Tad Walters_*
post Oct 12 2011, 05:45 AM
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Hey guys, so I've been interested in the Occupy Wall Street movements across the nation and I wanted to get y'all's view on it. Today is Historical Methods Lab, or as I call it, Meth Lab, we talked about Occupy Wall Street and whether or not it was generally a good thing or a bad thing. I just want to see if there is an argument for both sides, because I personally think that it is almost fully a bad thing. The lack of organization, the lack of clear goals, the rudeness of the protesters in response to compromises for different things like cleaning the parks, and the blocking of traffic by protesters are all a few reasons why OWS is bad. But a reasons for it being good could be that it is allowing Americans to protest corruption on Wall Street and display how disgruntled they are by the current state of things. So Is it bad or good? YOU DECIDE.
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Guest_Autumn Comet_*
post Oct 12 2011, 06:38 AM
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Hmm. I think the fact that they ARE protesting at all is good. I've heard both good and bad things about how the protesters are behaving, split upon predictable lines. I therefore offer some anecdotal evidence that may or may not be headed somewhere:

So Brandeis is located in Massachusetts, and there's pretty strong support for the local Occupy Boston movement as you can imagine. One of our school's main points is a focus on social justice. We even have "Brandeis Occupies Boston" going on that a good portion of the school is participating in. A few people on my hall went to OWS over the weekend before Rosh Hashanah, and I can provide any proof needed that they were genuinely concerned activists who just wanted to get things changed. Of course, this doesn't apply to all of the protesters, not at all. Still, I wouldn't call them all rude or uncaring. They're still sticking to one of the few things the Occupy movements have agreed upon: staying non-violent.

I haven't met any Occupy protesters that behave rudely, although that might just change in a crowd environment. When I was returning from New York, I took a stop at South Station in Boston, and there was a small crowd marching past that was with Occupy Boston. They seemed like they only sort of knew what they were doing, but I don't think they were rude, per se.

The movement could really benefit from leaders. Maybe not a strict hierarchy, but more leadership than is currently present. Or if not that, then at least a unified message (slightly more specific than "corporations are not people"). And if they want REAL change, they just might have to get behind a candidate. (Probably won't happen, but we can dream tongue.gif)

What is good is the fact that people are bothering to care. Even if you think they're completely wrong or could use a wake up call about the real world, take solace in the fact that at least there are some people who are still willing to go out and do something for a cause. I know plenty of people in Occupy Boston (or at least there over the weekends), and I plan on going myself after midterms, and I won't stand anyone labeling the participants as ALL being willfully ignorant and rude.

tl;dr: Bad actions, maybe. Bad that they're bothering to protest? Not in the slightest.

QUOTE
For man, unlike any other thing organic or inorganic in the universe, grows beyond his work, walks up the stairs of his concepts, emerges ahead of his accomplishments. This you may say of man—when theories change and crash, when schools, philosophies, when narrow dark alleys of thought, national, religious, economic, grow and disintegrate, man reaches, stumbles forward, painfully, mistakenly sometimes. Having stepped forward, he may slip back, but only half a step, never the full step back. This you may say and know it and know it. This you may know when the bombs plummet out of the black planes on the market place, when prisoners are stuck like pigs, when the crushed bodies drain filthily in the dust. You may know it in this way. If the step were not being taken, if the stumbling-forward ache were not alive, the bombs would not fall, the throats would not be cut. Fear the time when the bombs stop falling while the bombers live—for every bomb is proof that the spirit has not died. And fear the time when the strikes stop while the great owners live—for every little beaten strike is proof that the step is being taken. And this you can know—fear the time when Manself will not suffer and die for a concept, for this one quality is the foundation of Manself, and this one quality is man, distinctive in the universe.

You know where this is from. biggrin.gif

EDIT: Seriously Jessica, learn to grammar.

This post has been edited by Autumn Comet: Oct 12 2011, 06:39 AM
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Guest_dizzyizzy_*
post Oct 12 2011, 07:51 AM
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Demands aren't really necessary at all.

As to blocking traffic, you're referring to the Brooklyn Bridge incident? The protesters were herded onto the bridge, then arrested for being on it. It's a low, scummy, terrible tactic from the NYPD.

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Guest_Widget!_*
post Oct 12 2011, 08:04 AM
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I thought he was referring to the reports of traffic in Boston slowing to a halt because of the protesters...

Anyway, we won't actually be able to define whether or not #OWS is a "good" or "bad" thing until time has passed and we can view the whole narrative in the light of whether or not this movement should prove to be successful.

My prediction? Much like the protests against SB1070 and the Tea Party movement itself, #OccupyWallStreet will prove to be completely ineffectual, as your average person won't give a rat's ass, however, there is a caveat. Should someone protesting die, and should that death be able to be clearly ruled to be the fault of an officer of a police department of whatever city said hypothetical dead person dies in, people will begin to care. Fox News will make it out to be an awful ordeal for that poor policeman who had to beat some unarmed, clearly-violent-and-murderously-intent hippie to death with a truncheon; DailyKOS and others will take up the flag in anger; MSNBC as a whole will probably wring their hands in angst over whether or not to join DK, while Rachel Maddow will ignore her bosses and spit fire at whatever police department is responsible; and ultimately some boring, bland, ineffective, placatory piece of legislation will be passed, while the masses go home and everyone returns to business as usual, as the new season of the Office starts to heat up and get interesting.

...wait, the new season probably won't get interesting.

[/cynicism]


Although, I do plan to try to make it over to the #OccupyPhoenix event at some point. I imagine it will be interesting, but then again, if Arizona legislators can't piece a clear statement out of frijole swastikas, I doubt they'll be able to piece anything out of whatever springs up from #OP...

[/cynicism (FOR REAL THIS TIME)]
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Guest_Research Monkey_*
post Oct 12 2011, 11:39 AM
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Going after the wrong guys, silly disorganized hippies, Democrats too politically feeble to take any sort of inspiration from these events, etc.
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Guest_Research Monkey_*
post Oct 12 2011, 12:03 PM
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But, our government probably needs to be overthrown and our Constitution revised for us to have any hope of functioning effectively as a national entity in the next century.

Congress is irreparably broken given the current climate and our cultural preferences for what we seek in our leaders. We can't continue to be run by morons who work their way to the top by shouting down their opponents, and no amount of protests (Tea Party, OWS, or otherwise) is going to alter our society enough to make things work. "Career politicians" are no worse than prosecutors or small business owners at creating, say, financial regulatory policy: they're all equally reliant on outside sources with some comprehension of the subject matter.

Scrap the current legislature and executive, rework the federalism structure, keep an independent central bank and the current court structure, and focus on reworking the political infrastructure of this country.
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Guest_VarsityBoy_*
post Oct 12 2011, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (Research Monkey @ Oct 12 2011, 01:03 PM) *
But, our government probably needs to be overthrown and our Constitution revised for us to have any hope of functioning effectively as a national entity in the next century.

Congress is irreparably broken given the current climate and our cultural preferences for what we seek in our leaders. We can't continue to be run by morons who work their way to the top by shouting down their opponents, and no amount of protests (Tea Party, OWS, or otherwise) is going to alter our society enough to make things work. "Career politicians" are no worse than prosecutors or small business owners at creating, say, financial regulatory policy: they're all equally reliant on outside sources with some comprehension of the subject matter.

Scrap the current legislature and executive, rework the federalism structure, keep an independent central bank and the current court structure, and focus on reworking the political infrastructure of this country.

Real talk hunh?

Deets?
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Oct 15 2011, 01:55 AM
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You all can probably guess that I'm not very sympathetic to the protesters' cause, and especially not to their penchant for demonizing the careers that many of my friends and peers at Dartmouth hope to enter. But freedom of speech and assembly are part of what makes our country great, and these protesters have remained very disciplined about peace - there's been no violence or threat thereof, so I'm not a fan of the apparent overreaction of the police. I'll argue against their positions without telling them to shut up and go home.
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Guest_Autumn Comet_*
post Oct 15 2011, 04:13 AM
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15 October global occupation

Taking a gander at that map, I'd say this is definitely not going away any time soon.
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Guest_tryingtothinkagain_*
post Oct 15 2011, 04:43 AM
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QUOTE (Autumn Comet @ Oct 14 2011, 11:13 PM) *
15 October global occupation

Taking a gander at that map, I'd say this is definitely not going away any time soon.

I find it funny and interesting that there's one in the middle of nowhere a few miles east of Austin, but not a single one in the DFW area.
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Oct 15 2011, 04:53 AM
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I'm surprised how many of even my more liberal friends seem to have a negative opinion of Occupy Wall Street. Much the same way I, as a conservative, have a negative opinion of the Tea Party protests (though not necessarily of Tea Party policy views). It's the fringes, peeps.
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Guest_Widget!_*
post Oct 15 2011, 09:59 PM
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Going to #OccupyPhoenix in a bit. Will take notes and photos and report back.
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Guest_Research Monkey_*
post Oct 16 2011, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (AK_WDB @ Oct 14 2011, 09:53 PM) *
I'm surprised how many of even my more liberal friends seem to have a negative opinion of Occupy Wall Street. Much the same way I, as a conservative, have a negative opinion of the Tea Party protests (though not necessarily of Tea Party policy views). It's the fringes, peeps.


The Tea Party strikes me as being the extreme right wing fringe, whereas this strikes me as just people who probably have never voted.
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Oct 17 2011, 03:01 AM
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QUOTE (Research Monkey @ Oct 16 2011, 01:32 PM) *
The Tea Party strikes me as being the extreme right wing fringe, whereas this strikes me as just people who probably have never voted.

I expect it's some of both: some enthusiastic left-wing leaders and some uneducated non-voting followers. Probably the Tea Party is the same if you replace left with right.

Question: has waving signs with short slogans ever actually changed anyone's mind about an issue? Not really direct at OWS specifically.
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Guest_tryingtothinkagain_*
post Oct 17 2011, 03:38 AM
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I'm pretty sure the objective isn't to change minds directly so much as it is to get people to pay attention.
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Guest_dizzyizzy_*
post Oct 17 2011, 08:44 AM
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QUOTE (AK_WDB @ Oct 16 2011, 11:01 PM) *
QUOTE (Research Monkey @ Oct 16 2011, 01:32 PM) *
The Tea Party strikes me as being the extreme right wing fringe, whereas this strikes me as just people who probably have never voted.

I expect it's some of both: some enthusiastic left-wing leaders and some uneducated non-voting followers. Probably the Tea Party is the same if you replace left with right.

Question: has waving signs with short slogans ever actually changed anyone's mind about an issue? Not really direct at OWS specifically.


Personally, my opinion of the tea party went down with every single badly misspelled sign I saw from them. So, yeah, it sorta has. tongue.gif
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Guest_Research Monkey_*
post Oct 17 2011, 10:51 AM
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QUOTE (AK_WDB @ Oct 16 2011, 08:01 PM) *
Question: has waving signs with short slogans ever actually changed anyone's mind about an issue? Not really direct at OWS specifically.


I guess I'm guilty of distributing yardsigns, so I'm probably not qualified to say.
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Oct 17 2011, 01:34 PM
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Oh, I have nothing against yard signs supporting candidates. I'm talking about protest signs that try to discuss a complex political issue in one sentence. Like dizzyizzy, I think they actually make me more likely to disagree with the views expressed.
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Guest_VarsityBoy_*
post Oct 17 2011, 06:17 PM
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civil rights?
anti-vietnam protests?
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Guest_AK_WDB_*
post Oct 17 2011, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE (VarsityBoy @ Oct 17 2011, 09:17 AM) *
civil rights?
anti-vietnam protests?

I feel like those movements involved a lot more than waving signs.
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