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Guest_JackLosiStrader_*
post Jan 7 2013, 06:53 PM
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Conservative picks are common for a reason. Granted, seeing the Texans and the Ravens playing the way they did, if I could change my picks now I think I'd take HOU over NE, and DEN over BAL in a reeeaaallly close game.
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Guest_JackLosiStrader_*
post Jan 8 2013, 03:37 AM
Post #242





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But Arian Foster and the defense looked the best it has in a long time.
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Guest_JackLosiStrader_*
post Jan 8 2013, 04:05 PM
Post #243





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I don't think Schaub is a great QB. But I do think he's an okay quarterback. And I think Houston will be playing very motivated, after how badly they got crushed last time. I think the defense will play really well and the offense will play pretty decently, enough to win.
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Guest_michelangelo_*
post Jan 8 2013, 09:23 PM
Post #244





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key to victory for houston is beating NE on the line. houston's got a tough D and one of the best pass rushes in the NFL. get to tom brady before he beats you over the top and you can beat new england. also, schaub isn't tremendous, but i don't see why he can't beat new england's thin secondary, especially if arian foster forces new england to bring a safety up. houston's a good team that went cold at the end of the year, but if they return to their mid-season form, beating new england won't be impossible. i could definitely see it happening.
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Guest_JackLosiStrader_*
post Jan 13 2013, 03:48 PM
Post #245





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Joe Flacco is a hero, Colin Kaepernick is the anti-Christ.
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Guest_michelangelo_*
post Jan 13 2013, 08:47 PM
Post #246





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QUOTE (JackLosiStrader @ Jan 13 2013, 09:48 AM) *
Joe Flacco is a hero, Colin Kaepernick is the anti-Christ.


colin kaepernick is my second favorite qb in the nfl. i haven't seen anybody run all over candlestick like that since barry bonds stole 40 bases back in '96
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Guest_JackLosiStrader_*
post Jan 13 2013, 09:17 PM
Post #247





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It would appear my hubris over predicting the first round is being punished quite convincingly.
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Guest_michelangelo_*
post Jan 23 2013, 08:41 PM
Post #248





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QUOTE (debator @ Jan 22 2013, 07:47 PM) *
so, how do we feel about the tim brown statement? my assessment: extremely plausible.

ps: niners in the super bowl i guess?


i just don't see "he decided to pass instead of run, therefore he sabotaged us and wanted to lose" as an extremely compelling argument. i think "he wasn't cut out to be a super bowl coach and probably didn't make the best choice switching the game plan at the last second" or maybe "he saw something in game film in the middle of the week and decided to change his mind and it didn't work out very well" or maybe "he realized when watching us in practice that we couldn't run the ball well enough to win the super bowl, and opted instead to go to the air and we're professional football players so such a change probably shouldn't have been a big deal because deciding on friday to pass instead of run shouldn't affect our ability to throw or catch the football but we're still bitter about the loss and refuse to take accountability or accept that we lost because we weren't as good of a team as the winners so we'll come up with excuses like 'our coach wanted us to lose' so we can sleep at night knowing it wasn't our own fault we lost the super bowl" are all equally plausible/more likely explanations

as for the ps: go niners. kaepernick and lamichael james are both dope dudes on the football field
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Guest_dizzyizzy_*
post Jan 24 2013, 12:37 AM
Post #249





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Serious question: in a theoretical game of red rover, who would you rather see on the other team, Vince wilfork or BJ raji?
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Guest_dizzyizzy_*
post Jan 26 2013, 07:02 AM
Post #250





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lol have fun with him
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Guest_dizzyizzy_*
post Jan 29 2013, 04:30 PM
Post #251





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Rams just dodged a bullet... If they get someone who actually fits their personnel (*cough cough* Lovie Smith) and resign Steven Jackson, they're gonna make the playoffs next season no sweat.
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Guest_Research Monkey_*
post Jan 29 2013, 11:52 PM
Post #252





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QUOTE (debator @ Jan 29 2013, 03:20 PM) *
racism in hiring coaches (in a lot of sports) is a serious problem.


Except in football, where it's a very serious problem.
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Guest_michelangelo_*
post Jan 30 2013, 08:09 PM
Post #253





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QUOTE (Research Monkey @ Jan 29 2013, 05:52 PM) *
QUOTE (debator @ Jan 29 2013, 03:20 PM) *
racism in hiring coaches (in a lot of sports) is a serious problem.


Except in football, where it's a very serious problem.


The Rooney Rule is the most racist part of NFL head coaching searches.
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Guest_Research Monkey_*
post Jan 30 2013, 09:38 PM
Post #254





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QUOTE (michelangelo @ Jan 30 2013, 01:09 PM) *
The Rooney Rule is the most racist part of NFL head coaching searches.


It's always concerning when the utterances of misguided right-wingers on the subject of racism prove they fundamentally misunderstand what racism is. The Rooney Rule is an affirmative action measure that, while ultimately ineffectual, is not racist.

Racism, per Encyclopedia Britanica, is:

QUOTE
any action, practice, or belief that reflects the racial worldview—the ideology that humans are divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called "races," that there is a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural behavioral features, and that some races are innately superior to others.


The mandate for minority interviews is based on a fundamental assumption that race is not causally linked to any beneficial coaching trait, and that no race is inherently superior.

You're not going to find me out campaigning in favor of affirmative action in any context, I implore you to be more cautious with your words. The right-wing tagline that affirmative action is "reverse racism," is blatantly false and needs to be addressed.
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Guest_michelangelo_*
post Jan 30 2013, 09:43 PM
Post #255





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QUOTE (debator @ Jan 30 2013, 03:26 PM) *
You are a profoundly stupid person and a racist.


Well that was probably uncalled for
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Guest_michelangelo_*
post Jan 30 2013, 11:30 PM
Post #256





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QUOTE (debator @ Jan 30 2013, 04:57 PM) *
word, letting racists know they're racist is totally worse than, you know, actually being racist.


That doesn't even make sense. How can you call me a racist? How have you reached that conclusion?
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Guest_dizzyizzy_*
post Jan 31 2013, 02:32 AM
Post #257





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The shortcoming of the rooney rule has been a fairly small pool of candidates to choose from. The only minority we know of publicly who was snubbed recently is Ray Horton, and his "snub" had a whole lot less to do with his race than it did with the fact that defensive head coaches aren't a sexy hire.

The problem is that coaching is something of a good ol' boys club. Between Mike Tomlin, Lovie Smith, and Tony Dungie, it's obvious that black head coaches are viable candidates. That's been proven by real-world events, for anyone too stuck to realize that their being black would have no effect on their coaching.

The issue is how to increase the talent pool within all ranks of coaching. The supposed hotpatch to the rooney rule is to extend it to coordinator positions as well. I personally don't think this goes far enough.

There should be a program to help ex-players transition to coaching. I'm not saying black ex-players, I'm saying all ex-players. The ethnic makeup of the NFL will naturally follow. But inserting players into mentoring roles with young teams or assistant position coach for wherever they used to play will gradually increase the talent pool as the former players adjust to their new role. Hell, make 1 year of coaching mandatory for every player who plays beyond their rookie contract.

This eases a second, unrelated problem: retired players have a hard time letting go (see: Chad Ochocinco after being cut by the Seahawks, Terrelle Owens's train wreck in that indoor league, Vince Young's half-heared but earnest attempt to join the cardinals this season).

In an unrelated note, deer antlers are the ray lewisest PED ever.

This post has been edited by dizzyizzy: Jan 31 2013, 04:16 AM
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Guest_michelangelo_*
post Feb 1 2013, 09:29 PM
Post #258





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QUOTE (debator @ Jan 30 2013, 05:47 PM) *
from the fact that you think discrimination against white people, in a society--and specifically in an organization and a sport--set up to give us every possible advantage to succeed, is at all a thing, and the simultaneous fact that you're unconcerned with the systemic oppression that serves to keep every other race at a constant disadvantage. if you care more about white people who don't have problems than minorities who do, you are a racist and an idiot.


I am not concerned about discrimination against white people, nor do I see pressing evidence to believe that "systematic oppression that serves to keep every other race at a disadvantage" is at all a thing in the NFL. Further, I do not care "more about white people....than minorities" so it's not sound to conclude that I am a racist, or that I am an idiot.

The Rooney Rule exists to protect blacks and other minorities in coaching by prohibiting teams from completely snubbing them in coaching searches. In order to conclude that minorities need protection and extra help, you either have to believe 1) they are being snubbed; or 2) they are otherwise incapable of getting interviews because they are inherently at a disadvantage in coaching because of their color. If either 1) or 2) is true, then the Rooney Rule is justified.

First off, it is not valid to conclude that "minority coaches are being snubbed" from "there are more white guys coaching than black guys", so that argument in and of itself isn't sufficient to justify the Rooney Rule. What you need is real evidence that guys are actually getting snubbed. So, who got snubbed? Ray Horton, a guy with no head coaching experience? By the way, he just got hired on in Cleveland as a defensive coordinator. Lovie Smith? You mean the guy that took the Bears to the playoffs 3 times in the last decade, and only once in the last seven years? Or Romeo Crennel, the guy that has barely won a third of his games as an NFL head coach, has never made the playoffs, and finished in last in his division 4 times in 6 years of coaching?

Are those snubs? Or are those just guys that don't have particularly exciting resumes?

Now, you can point to other white coaches that got hired and say they don't have sexy resumes either (e.g. Doug Marrone, whose college coaching career isn't too impressive) but if you want to show that minorities are actually getting "systematically oppressed" in the NFL, then you're going to have to show that at the end of the day, the Buffalo Bills hired Doug Marrone because he had one quality that Lovie, Romeo, and Ray didn't have: white-ness. In doing so, you are accusing the entire upper management in Buffalo of being racists merely because they hired a white guy instead of a black guy. If that doesn't sound absurd, then I don't know what does.

Since you've yet to convincingly show that these coaches are actually being snubbed and that the "systematic oppression" isn't a function of your own imagination, I have to assume that your defense for the Rooney Rule stems from reason (2) above: that minorities are inherently disadvantaged as head coaches, and thus need systematic protection to promote diversity. That, my friend, is nothing more than "noble" racism - the idea that you have to protect a race because that race is incapable of protecting itself. I simply will not, can not, and do not subscribe to that belief.

That said, the Rooney Rule is racist in the literal sense because it suggests that minorities need to be helped out because they are incapable of helping themselves due to some inherent quality which makes them worse head coaches than white people. Systematizing diversity, while noble in its cause, is an inherently flawed concept. I propose that we quit crying foul at every opportunity and quit acting as if race needs to be a factor in every decision making process on the planet and instead start treating people like people.


This post has been edited by michelangelo: Feb 1 2013, 09:34 PM
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Guest_Research Monkey_*
post Feb 5 2013, 08:24 AM
Post #259





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QUOTE (debator @ Feb 4 2013, 03:24 PM) *
paragraph 2 posits a false dichotomy, unless you give "snubbed" much broader reading than the word can bear, or your later arguments suggest. the reason that the rooney rule is needed is that, at every level of football from pop warner tryouts to the commissioner's office, football decisions are made primarily by white people, many of whom favor their own race or disfavor others, often consciously but sometimes not. we need to give closer consideration to minority applicants to, 1. make up for the institutional disadvantage they have been given all their lives by racists with decision-making power, and 2. help put people in positions that diminish that disadvantage over time. the disadvantage in reason 1 is not "inherent," it's the result of a systemic racism in the game, the evidence of which you we'll get to soon.

as i said, it's not the case that guys are getting snubbed per se (also, the rule doesn't solve snubbing; it just requires that minority candidates be interviewed, which could actually lead to more traditional snubbing); it's that they aren't getting the opportunities in the first place. one of the best ways to get a head coaching job is to be an nfl offensive coordinator. how many black offensive coordinators are there? one, and he was a midseason replacement. racism isn't a thing that happens in isolated incidents like hiring decisions: it runs up and down the core of a society and makes everything harder from the beginning to the end. was it "racist" that a 4-win andy reid was highly sought after but a 10-2 win lovie smith couldn't get a (head coaching) job? maybe, maybe not. but it's definitely racist that other non-white would-be coaches have trouble getting jobs as position coaches, or high school head coaching jobs, or college assisting jobs, or other types of jobs that might eventually lead to the top, and so they're not even in a position to be considered for the same job as andy reid or bruce arians or chip kelly.

here's an anecdotal but by no means rare example of how it works. a lot of coaches come from quarterbacking backgrounds, because it's the position that best understands how things go on both sides of the ball. in high school, a good friend of mine and one of the best athletes i know, was not even allowed to try out for quarterback on his school's team because of the color of his skin. the thinking in his mostly-white atlanta hs was that black students were better at running and hitting than at mental tasks, like a quarterback needs to do (incidentally, this kid is also brilliant and probably going to a top-ten med school next year). again, this is just one story, but it illustrates the problems that black players and coaches experience that serve to keep the top positions in disproportionately white hands. you're asking for evidence of racism in football. here's one link, i could post a hundred more but i frankly have better things to do with my time and you know how to use google.

i don't have to argue that the entire upper management of the bills is racist (although that's not impossible, have you been to upstate ny) because unanimity isn't required for decision making, or even that a majority were (which actually sounds extremely plausible), or a key few, because as i've said, racism is not something that happens in isolated incidents. maybe hiring marrone was motivated by racism; maybe it wasn't. but the fact that there if twelve doug marrones for every lovie smith that they could look at sure as hell isn't. even without the hard evidence, the fact that you could look at the ratio of white:non-white top people in football, compare it to that same ratio among players, and think that any of that it is at all ok is racist as smurf.

your conclusion that thinking no straight-up snubs are happening means that i think non-white people are inferior and need help is extremely flawed because of the false dichotomy discussed above. and i legitimately have never heard that argument for affirmative action expressed by anyone supporting it, only by racists who want to set up a horribly unrepresentative straw man. i don't hold that belief, and i don't think anyone who supports the rooney rule holds that belief, and the fact that you imagine that it's because of an inferiority rather than an extrinsic disadvantage (racism) that the policy was instituted is pretty smurfed up.

then you say that we need to quit acting like race needs to be a factor in every decision. but here's the thing: race already is a factor in a ton of decisions, because of all the racists. the only people who can choose to not see race are white people, because other races get it seen for them, by racists, every day of their lives. the rooney rule, and other policies like it for lower levels, are necessary not because of explicit snubs that happen at the head-coach level, or because somebody feels like minority candidates can't make it on a level playing field. it's because the playing field is inherently unlevel, because of institutionalized racism.


This ranks among the top three "most correct things typed without use of a shift key," all-time.
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Guest_dizzyizzy_*
post Mar 1 2013, 01:51 AM
Post #260





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QUOTE (debator @ Feb 27 2013, 04:34 PM) *
alex smith to the chiefs. at least it's not the browns?

basically
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