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> 2011 Texas State Championship, who will go to nationals?!
Stanley Tree
post Feb 24 2011, 07:14 PM
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Finally, the weekend all us Texans have been waiting for! We have a distinct latin flavor to our meets this year, with large going to the desert oasis of El Paso and Medium sticking to it in the most latino city this side of Miami. So are we going to have some delicious, spicy competition to go with my delicious, spicy tacos?

There's a lot to talk about, so let's see what I can conjure up:
-In Round 2, no one score about a 780 on lang/lit, and hardly anyone would consider that they performed well on that test. The only Round 3 score we've seen for Lang/lit is an 840 out in Nebraska; is Jennifer Swenson an outlier? Or are the tests going to be much more agreeable? If they are, we could easily see a five question increase just based on scores from regionals, not including the improvement in the subject the kids make. That's a 600 point head start over what teams had at regionals, and I'm probably understating the difference if it occurs. Now, USAD could make up for this increase by making another tests significantly harder, but with an 800 getting bronze honors in econ and an 860 for gold music, that only leaves you with sosci, SQ, art, and math to manipulate. Sosci and SQ will likely not be affected, but making Art fundies more difficult is possible, and math could definitely get harder.


-All I know is, if I'm flying out to El Paso to see a state championship, I better see a state champion. If I don't, I'm going to be really smurfing mad at TAD. But seriously, the quality this year has brought us in the form of Dobie, Rockwall, Seven Lakes, and a revitalized Friendswood is fantastic and probably the strongest group of teams we've had at the top in a while. Nevertheless, only one of these teams can be crowned champion, and going with the numbers from regionals you would be wise to guess Dobie has this in the bag. However, a look at the recent history of these programs shows that this is far from a done deal.


Year Reg.Score State Score Change (%)


Dobie

2010 45,590 46,093 503(1.1)
2009 43,310 45,667 2,753(5.2)
2008 45,838 46,622 784(1.7)
2007 41,091 41,852 739(1.85)

Avg. change: 2.46%

Rockwall

2010 43,186 46,533 3,327(7.75)
2009 42,256 45,833 3,526(8.47)
2008 42,142 43,132 990(2.35)
2007 41,085 43,733 2,652(6.5)

Avg. change: 6.27%

Seven Lakes

2010 44,946 47,974 3,028(6.74)
2009 43,741 45,741 2,000(4.57)
2008 44,291 47,941 3,650(8.24)

Avg. change: 6.52%

Friendswood

2010 42,177 43,906 1,771(4.1)
2009 42,401 44,601 2,200(5.2)
2008 43,094 45,666 2,528(6)
2007 44,238 46,023 1,785(4)

Avg. change: 4.83%


So, if we look at the largest change, smallest change, and average here's what we're looking at...

Dobie (49,567-51,577)- 50,234
Rockwall (47,957-50,825)- 49,792
Seven Lakes (47,813-49,492)- 48,706
Friendswood (45,884-46,766)- 46,250

That looks a lot closer than regionals, no? The dynamic between Rockwall and Dobie is almost opposite: when Dobie has had its best teams, they have increased very little compared to what they increased when they didn't have their best team (2009); meanwhile, Rockwall does much better from regions to state when it has a good team, but does poorly when they're their worst (2008). Taking both these years out of the equation, we have a new average:

Dobie-49,787
Rockwall- 50,423

Ahhhh, things are getting even MORE interesting now. Granted, this is certainly their best teams in these given set of years, so they're going to buck most trends, especially a great team like Dobie. However, ANOTHER factor to consider about Dobie is the last time a team from Region V was this good: that would be 2008, my good ol' team. After breaking 50k at regionals, we dropped 11 points despite a 1,000 point increase in objectives. With Dobie going to be struggling to find points at such a high score, it's going to be even harder with the recent history of Region V.

-The big surprise team of the year is Clear Brook (nailed it, btw) who are sitting pretty in 5th place in large. The test for this program with a relatively new coach is to see how they're going to react to being one of the top teams. Last year, Brook moved up five spots and 1,438 points, one of the best improvements of the teams not in the top 10. Now, they have a great chance to upset the power structure currently in Texas; they already took down Pearland at regionals, and are within striking distance of Katy Taylor and possibly even Nimitz. A top 5 finish would be fantastic, but I sincerely hope they can crack the top 3, and they continue to produce great decathlon teams and making Region V even more beast in the process.

-Was region X super deflated, or has Plano really fallen off that far? Berkner came uncomfortably close to dethroning Plano, less than a hundred points off. Plano is the worst region representative at large, which is pretty ridiculous to me. I would say they're better than the region winners in the teens (Klein, D-ville, Grand Prairie, Coronado EP), which also means so is Berkner. Can one of them jump into the top 10? Don't bet against it.















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2017 Texas Large School State Champion
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2008 Team State champion
2008 Varsity State champion

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JP_Irish
post Feb 24 2011, 08:28 PM
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QUOTE (Stanley Tree @ Feb 24 2011, 01:14 PM) *
this is far from a done deal.


Bank on it . . .

QUOTE (Stanley Tree @ Feb 24 2011, 01:14 PM) *
Seven Lakes

2010 44,946 47,974 3,028(6.74)
2009 43,741 45,741 2,000(4.57)
2008 44,291 47,941 3,650(8.24)

Avg. change: 6.52%


I can guarantee you our increase will be bigger than this.

See you Sunday morning. popcorn.gif


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John Paul II High School
Plano, Texas
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the godfather
post Feb 24 2011, 09:24 PM
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You won't be seeing a state champion because its going to come from San Antonio baby!!! GO YELLOWJACKETS!!!


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Jonesy
post Feb 24 2011, 09:38 PM
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Jennifer Swenson medalled quite a few times, but a scholastic on Prep's team outscored her overall.


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Gear
post Feb 25 2011, 01:14 AM
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QUOTE (the godfather @ Feb 24 2011, 03:24 PM) *
You won't be seeing a state champion because its going to come from San Antonio baby!!! GO YELLOWJACKETS!!!

Thanks for the support. We're working hard to keep you from lying.

Good luck to 7 Lakes, Dobie, Nimitz, Berkner and all our large school friends in El Paso this weekend.


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Higginbotham
post Feb 25 2011, 03:04 AM
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We usually go up by 1000-2000 points on objectives between regional and state, but down by almost that much in subjectives. I have yet to break 15k in subs at state.

However, this is the best subs team I've ever had, so I think we'll break 15k tomorrow. If we can do that, I will feel pretty optimistic about our chances.

I would bet that if you showed the same stats with an obj/subs breakdown, you would find that we are comperable to 7L and Rockwall in our obj increase, but get killed in subs.

Good luck to everyone.

This post has been edited by Higginbotham: Feb 25 2011, 02:14 PM


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J. Frank Dobie
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nicksyn
post Feb 25 2011, 03:05 AM
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Good luck, Dobie! You are definitely the team to beat this year.

Also, to the original poster, where did you find out individual scores on tests for R3 thus far?
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GJNHS
post Feb 25 2011, 04:28 AM
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QUOTE (the godfather @ Feb 24 2011, 03:24 PM) *
You won't be seeing a state champion because its going to come from San Antonio baby!!! GO YELLOWJACKETS!!!


It is troublesome that a person who is going to be a judge, and can thus influence the results, is so obviously biased toward the Medium Schools. I wonder if anyone else in the Large School division is bothered by these remarks.
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The Evil Dr. Cal...
post Feb 25 2011, 04:30 AM
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This is going to be an excellent contest. I'll be waiting with baited breath on Sunday morning.


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the godfather
post Feb 25 2011, 06:02 AM
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It's officially the day, our journey has now began until about 6 o'clock or so Saturday night, so good luck to all and push each other to death, protect this house. TEXAS FIGHT!!! Bring the title back to the Lone Star State.


--------------------
"If you were to die tomorrow would you be happy with your life? Do you have any regrets? It's easy enough to press backspace and change an answer, but you can't exactly erase a moment in your life and try again. Live each day like you may never see the sunrise again, love like you might never hug or hold someones hand again, don't wait to tell someone how you feel in case you never have that chance, because they might just feel the same way, and wouldn't it be worth taking that chance if it might be your last? Take advantage of every breath and every minute of your life without any regrets, embrace even the pain and the heartbreak, and most importantly the laughter and the smiles you share with those you love."
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dog
post Feb 25 2011, 06:27 AM
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QUOTE (GJNHS @ Feb 24 2011, 10:28 PM) *
QUOTE (the godfather @ Feb 24 2011, 03:24 PM) *
You won't be seeing a state champion because its going to come from San Antonio baby!!! GO YELLOWJACKETS!!!


It is troublesome that a person who is going to be a judge, and can thus influence the results, is so obviously biased toward the Medium Schools. I wonder if anyone else in the Large School division is bothered by these remarks.


You coaches worry about the most petty things. Do you really think that godfather, a past decathlete who frequents an Acdemic Decathlon message board, would just throw out 1000s because he's rooting for a medium school team? It's a pretty childish thing for you or any other coach to be concerned about and is an unwarranted attack on someone trying to support the Academic decathlon program.


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Rockwall Varsity
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the godfather
post Feb 25 2011, 06:33 AM
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QUOTE (dog @ Feb 25 2011, 12:27 AM) *
QUOTE (GJNHS @ Feb 24 2011, 10:28 PM) *
QUOTE (the godfather @ Feb 24 2011, 03:24 PM) *
You won't be seeing a state champion because its going to come from San Antonio baby!!! GO YELLOWJACKETS!!!


It is troublesome that a person who is going to be a judge, and can thus influence the results, is so obviously biased toward the Medium Schools. I wonder if anyone else in the Large School division is bothered by these remarks.


You coaches worry about the most petty things. Do you really think that godfather, a past decathlete who frequents an Acdemic Decathlon message board, would just throw out 1000s because he's rooting for a medium school team? It's a pretty childish thing for you or any other coach to be concerned about and is an unwarranted attack on someone trying to support the Academic decathlon program.


Yeah I'm going to be completely objective about judging. I expect to see the best speeches because I know what those type of speeches are like and what truly deserves a 1000 and what deserves a 500. I'm doing this because I want to help out with academic decathlon because it was a wonderful experience in my life. Also it's not like I know who I'm judging because I don't know the actual number to a team. Either way I'm doing this to continue on and have fun with decathlon and hear all the wonderful speeches that I'm sure to hear. I have no favorites in this thing (my alma mater is like 13th out of 25), I just want everybody to do their best. And thanks Joseph for defending me, I truly appreciate it.

Edit: One last thing if you really think about I'm one of 3 judges so in the grand scheme of things my effect on the total team score is like nearly nothing. Lastly, whoever wins I'll be happy because they would have truly earned it through this competition. The reason I'm pulling for Rockwall is because I feel like they can truly make it a contest which would be so exciting to see for me personally.

This post has been edited by the godfather: Feb 25 2011, 06:41 AM


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"If you were to die tomorrow would you be happy with your life? Do you have any regrets? It's easy enough to press backspace and change an answer, but you can't exactly erase a moment in your life and try again. Live each day like you may never see the sunrise again, love like you might never hug or hold someones hand again, don't wait to tell someone how you feel in case you never have that chance, because they might just feel the same way, and wouldn't it be worth taking that chance if it might be your last? Take advantage of every breath and every minute of your life without any regrets, embrace even the pain and the heartbreak, and most importantly the laughter and the smiles you share with those you love."
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Perusse
post Feb 25 2011, 07:31 AM
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I found myself getting nervous thinking about State, much like I did in previous years, even though I'm not competing. Man, I wish I could've found a way down to San Antonio this weekend.
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the godfather
post Feb 25 2011, 07:40 AM
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QUOTE (Perusse @ Feb 25 2011, 01:31 AM) *
I found myself getting nervous thinking about State, much like I did in previous years, even though I'm not competing. Man, I wish I could've found a way down to San Antonio this weekend.


I'm leaving around 3 do you want to come?


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"If you were to die tomorrow would you be happy with your life? Do you have any regrets? It's easy enough to press backspace and change an answer, but you can't exactly erase a moment in your life and try again. Live each day like you may never see the sunrise again, love like you might never hug or hold someones hand again, don't wait to tell someone how you feel in case you never have that chance, because they might just feel the same way, and wouldn't it be worth taking that chance if it might be your last? Take advantage of every breath and every minute of your life without any regrets, embrace even the pain and the heartbreak, and most importantly the laughter and the smiles you share with those you love."
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Perusse
post Feb 25 2011, 03:30 PM
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I wish I could, but I have a test.
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TheAwesomeKid
post Feb 25 2011, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE (dog @ Feb 25 2011, 12:27 AM) *
You coaches worry about the most petty things. Do you really think that godfather, a past decathlete who frequents an Acdemic Decathlon message board, would just throw out 1000s because he's rooting for a medium school team? It's a pretty childish thing for you or any other coach to be concerned about and is an unwarranted attack on someone trying to support the Academic decathlon program.


Actually, if ONLY because it will directly affect the medals students receive, this issue is not petty. Yes, you aren't supposed to know what school people are from, technically, but many judges ask (and have asked me, at MS) especially if they are newbies. You can't say that knowing a kid's school wouldn't influence your decision, even implicitly, no matter how much control you think you have over your own objectivity. A judge will always be subjective, it's your duty to be as objective as you can.

But on a far greater scale than that, it's actually really funny you guys brought this up, because if memory serves me correctly, Nimitz High School once won Large but didn't go to nationals because there were inflated subjectives at state with Friendswood (2004?). In a contest where Medium school subjectives have been an issue in the past, coaches have every right to be worried that they could win on objectives and still not win overall. As such, points here and there aren't 'petty' - sometimes it's pretty small differences that differentiate first from second (WW 08?)
As such, Joseph and godfather, I don't buy it. While you may end up being as objective a judge can be, in theory, you could also give everyone a hundred points more than they deserved, inflating scores by about 400 per team. You've been talking about how much you want a Medium School to win. It's wonderful that you want Rockwall to do well - all of us DO want them to do well (although some of us want 7L to do better biggrin.gif). But when you are a judge and can determine scoring, you should do your best to be objective. And comments like this one:

QUOTE (the godfather @ Feb 24 2011, 03:24 PM) *
You won't be seeing a state champion because its going to come from San Antonio baby!!! GO YELLOWJACKETS!!!


don't dictate objectivity, whether or not you like it.

This is a massive year for Texas, and while Dobie is the frontrunner, I'd like to think that Rockwall and Seven Lakes have a shot at closing the gap at least (not because they are working harder, but because Dobie has less room to improve). The worst thing for a coach (I think) would be to have their team perform amazingly on the objectives, and not win, after seeing comments such as the one you made earlier, GF. So it's not petty, it's not trivial, it's crucially important that a judge always be objective in judging. If I were a judge, I would want Seven Lakes to win and everyone would know it. So even though I would try my best to be objective, no one would be remiss in at least questioning me, especially if I publicly made statements about wanting Seven Lakes to win.

TLDR; GF, you aren't being objective when you openly support Rockwall, which is cool, but you are a judge, so it's not cool.

This post has been edited by TheAwesomeKid: Feb 25 2011, 04:37 PM
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the godfather
post Feb 25 2011, 05:04 PM
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One: Speech medals have no impact on the overall competition, I think we all know that.
Two: If you think I'm going to openly give out scores you're crazy. Just because I personally might want Rockwall to win, doesn't mean I'm going to do everything I can to help them. Heck Dobie winning would make me just as happy or Seven Lakes or Nimitz for that matter.
Three: And those comments were to joke with Hartman. I mean don't we all to some point brag about our own teams and such. Because obviously you said it yourself with wanting Seven Lakes to win.
Lastly: I really don't care if you have a problem with me judging, I'm there to have a good team listen to good speeches and judge them accordingly. I have no idea which team is which and frankly I plan on staying that way. Also as a former decathlete I'm not planning on going easy AT ALL. I've won medals in speech before so I know what it takes to get a certain number. I just hope you realize I'm not there to help anyone else and just doing this to give back, but if you want to take your view then so be it, I can't change your mind.


--------------------
"If you were to die tomorrow would you be happy with your life? Do you have any regrets? It's easy enough to press backspace and change an answer, but you can't exactly erase a moment in your life and try again. Live each day like you may never see the sunrise again, love like you might never hug or hold someones hand again, don't wait to tell someone how you feel in case you never have that chance, because they might just feel the same way, and wouldn't it be worth taking that chance if it might be your last? Take advantage of every breath and every minute of your life without any regrets, embrace even the pain and the heartbreak, and most importantly the laughter and the smiles you share with those you love."
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dog
post Feb 25 2011, 05:22 PM
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Yeah I've heard the story thanks for the lecture though, and from what I understand it wasn't that a bunch of volunteers got together and decided that they were going to smurf over large school, but that because they did not know how AcDec worked the scores were inflated. If there had been more past decathletes judging then the scores would have been much fairer. What your insinuating is that people who were in decathlon and enjoyed it enough volunteer their time to judging would intentionally create an uncompetitive environment. I have a hard time believing that's so.

Again, don't attack the people who love the program, no one is out to screw you over.


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Stanley Tree
post Feb 25 2011, 05:23 PM
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QUOTE (the godfather @ Feb 25 2011, 05:04 PM) *
One: Speech medals have no impact on the overall competition, I think we all know that.
Two: If you think I'm going to openly give out scores you're crazy. Just because I personally might want Rockwall to win, doesn't mean I'm going to do everything I can to help them. Heck Dobie winning would make me just as happy or Seven Lakes or Nimitz for that matter.
Three: And those comments were to joke with Hartman. I mean don't we all to some point brag about our own teams and such. Because obviously you said it yourself with wanting Seven Lakes to win.
Lastly: I really don't care if you have a problem with me judging, I'm there to have a good team listen to good speeches and judge them accordingly. I have no idea which team is which and frankly I plan on staying that way. Also as a former decathlete I'm not planning on going easy AT ALL. I've won medals in speech before so I know what it takes to get a certain number. I just hope you realize I'm not there to help anyone else and just doing this to give back, but if you want to take your view then so be it, I can't change your mind.


To say that speech medals doesn't affect anything is completely false. Everything matters. Moorpark won the national championship over Waukesha by one question and three points. If, say, some judge at the meet REALLY wanted MPK to win, then there you have a victory bc of a biased judge. I'm not saying you're biased, and I know you're going to be tough, but saying things that are even meant to be jokes can easily be misconstrued, especially at this point in the year. And honestly GF if you're going to say things like "speech medals don't matter" then I think your integrity as a judge should be called into question.

And yes dog, coaches are going to complain about things like this; Jackson's been in the game since I was smurfing born, so for you to call him childish angers me a bit. He's seen just about everything that can happen at a decathlon meet, so I'm pretty sure he's trying to make sure there's no conflict of interest. Also, he's been on the losing side of the most controversial state championship ever, when Friendswood beat Nimitz with somewhere above 16,000 on subs and in the middle of the medium schools in terms of subjective ranks, while Nimitz was first at Large in subs and scored roughly 14,000. THAT'S the kinda things Jackson's worried about. It's not petty at all, it's rather important.


Boy, emotions are high today!


--------------------
Academic Decathlon Coach, Dulles High School
2017 Texas Large School State Champion
AP World History teacher
Former Varsity Head Coach, Girls Soccer


Pearland High School '08
2008 Team State champion
2008 Varsity State champion

“It’s all these guys. They’ve been with us for a while. They believe in each other. They put up with me and go out and do it better the next day. They’ve got the courage of a lion.” - Frank Martin
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the godfather
post Feb 25 2011, 05:34 PM
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QUOTE (Stanley Tree @ Feb 25 2011, 11:23 AM) *
QUOTE (the godfather @ Feb 25 2011, 05:04 PM) *
One: Speech medals have no impact on the overall competition, I think we all know that.
Two: If you think I'm going to openly give out scores you're crazy. Just because I personally might want Rockwall to win, doesn't mean I'm going to do everything I can to help them. Heck Dobie winning would make me just as happy or Seven Lakes or Nimitz for that matter.
Three: And those comments were to joke with Hartman. I mean don't we all to some point brag about our own teams and such. Because obviously you said it yourself with wanting Seven Lakes to win.
Lastly: I really don't care if you have a problem with me judging, I'm there to have a good team listen to good speeches and judge them accordingly. I have no idea which team is which and frankly I plan on staying that way. Also as a former decathlete I'm not planning on going easy AT ALL. I've won medals in speech before so I know what it takes to get a certain number. I just hope you realize I'm not there to help anyone else and just doing this to give back, but if you want to take your view then so be it, I can't change your mind.


To say that speech medals doesn't affect anything is completely false. Everything matters. Moorpark won the national championship over Waukesha by one question and three points. If, say, some judge at the meet REALLY wanted MPK to win, then there you have a victory bc of a biased judge. I'm not saying you're biased, and I know you're going to be tough, but saying things that are even meant to be jokes can easily be misconstrued, especially at this point in the year. And honestly GF if you're going to say things like "speech medals don't matter" then I think your integrity as a judge should be called into question.

And yes dog, coaches are going to complain about things like this; Jackson's been in the game since I was smurfing born, so for you to call him childish angers me a bit. He's seen just about everything that can happen at a decathlon meet, so I'm pretty sure he's trying to make sure there's no conflict of interest. Also, he's been on the losing side of the most controversial state championship ever, when Friendswood beat Nimitz with somewhere above 16,000 on subs and in the middle of the medium schools in terms of subjective ranks, while Nimitz was first at Large in subs and scored roughly 14,000. THAT'S the kinda things Jackson's worried about. It's not petty at all, it's rather important.


Boy, emotions are high today!


I didn't mean it like that of course and apologize on that statement, just a little pissed that they feel like I will do a bad job. I just have to ask what do I have to gain from giving one team a 1000. I mean its not like I'm going to nationals, there is no reason why I would give someone a score they do not deserve. Again sorry for this rant.


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"If you were to die tomorrow would you be happy with your life? Do you have any regrets? It's easy enough to press backspace and change an answer, but you can't exactly erase a moment in your life and try again. Live each day like you may never see the sunrise again, love like you might never hug or hold someones hand again, don't wait to tell someone how you feel in case you never have that chance, because they might just feel the same way, and wouldn't it be worth taking that chance if it might be your last? Take advantage of every breath and every minute of your life without any regrets, embrace even the pain and the heartbreak, and most importantly the laughter and the smiles you share with those you love."
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Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th December 2017 - 04:58 PM